Is C# Better?

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Is C# Better?

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Gary Varga SSC Guru Points: 82166 More actions · Answer 1

Sorry. I forgot the wink...or did I???

I made the comment because too many people develop over engineered systems in an ad hoc fashion as opposed to following good software engineering practices.

I am sure that this is not what you were eluding too though.

...and no, I do not equate ad hoc with agile. They can be the same but so can improper waterfall!!!

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004312 More actions · Answer 2

Gianluca Sartori (11/16/2009)
rigid languages such as Java simply don't allow crap.

BWAA-HAA!!!! Someone please tell some of the folks I used to work with that!:-P

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

sjsubscribe SSCrazy Points: 2080 More actions · Answer 3

Gianluca Sartori (11/16/2009)
....Flexible languages such as VB.Net allow you to write crappy code, rigid languages such as Java simply don't allow crap....

VB.net flexible and Java rigid? Wow, that's a new one. Perhaps you mean weakly typed versus strongly typed languages. In any case, VB.net or Java are equally capable of producing crap.

spaghettidba SSC Guru Points: 105732 More actions · Answer 4

Jeff Moden (11/18/2009)
Gianluca Sartori (11/16/2009)
rigid languages such as Java simply don't allow crap.
BWAA-HAA!!!! Someone please tell some of the folks I used to work with that!:-P

Oh, that's ok Jeff! You're right, it's possibile to write crap in any language and I have coded crap in Java myself when I hadn't spent enough time thinking before typing. (Maybe I messed with tenses here, but it should be clear)

The point I'm trying to make is that when there's a good enough design, a good enough analysis and all good software engineering principles are followed, you just have to pick the language that allows you to translate that good design into good code, assumed that you can choose.

There are languages that don't allow crappy shortcuts and let you understand quite soon if you overlooked something. Other languages can give you so many tricks to make the whole thing work that you could finish the project without noticing that you could have done it better. Other languages simply don't have all the possibilities that would let you follow your design strictly.

That said, even when the design is good and you didn't overlook anything (did that ever happen to me?), the mere code could be as crappy as you can imagine in any possible language. But I'm expecting those capable of a good design to be capable of good code. And vice-versa with bad code.

-- Gianluca Sartori

Gary Varga SSC Guru Points: 82166 More actions · Answer 5

No language can stop the rubbish this industry produces. Nor is it primarily languages' flaws at fault. Some of these so called faults are language features. Often it is either the use of an inappropriate language in an area of work or poor use of that language.

I put this down to a lack of self regulation. Whenever I have had the fortune to work on a project that has dedicated enough time and resources to the task at hand the results have been good. Whenever time and resources are not, be it too little or even too much, the results have always been suboptimal.

_{Steve, if you are reading this, how much longer until this thread gets into the Guiness Book of Records?}

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736160 More actions · Answer 6

Gary Istvan Varga (11/19/2009)
No language can stop the rubbish this industry produces. Nor is it primarily languages' flaws at fault. Some of these so called faults are language features. Often it is either the use of an inappropriate language in an area of work or poor use of that language.

Nicely put. It's the people, not the language. I think my take from this poll is that you can learn either C# or VB, neither really offering many advantages over the other.

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736160 More actions · Answer 7

Gary Istvan Varga (11/19/2009)
_{Steve, if you are reading this, how much longer until this thread gets into the Guiness Book of Records?}

It's a good debate, but it's a far cry from a record thread 😉

spaghettidba SSC Guru Points: 105732 More actions · Answer 8

Steve Jones - Editor (11/19/2009)
Gary Istvan Varga (11/19/2009)
_{Steve, if you are reading this, how much longer until this thread gets into the Guiness Book of Records?}
It's a good debate, but it's a far cry from a record thread 😉

I bet you know a longer Thread, Steve, don't you? 🙂

-- Gianluca Sartori

Open Minded SSCommitted Points: 1872 More actions · Answer 9

"which is the better language?"

"what is the mother of all languages?"

those kinds of thread will never end :w00t:

oh no, no one answer those questions, it's only an example. :hehe:

Charles Kincaid SSChampion Points: 13593 More actions · Answer 10

bear in a box (11/19/2009)
"what is the mother of all languages?"

Mother? Why are you using half a word? :w00t: :hehe: :pinch:

So have you looked at F#[/url] yet? There is a mother! I'll get my head around it. Yeah, byt the time they introduce Z# maybe!

ATBCharles Kincaid

Open Minded SSCommitted Points: 1872 More actions · Answer 11

Charles Kincaid (11/20/2009)
bear in a box (11/19/2009)
"what is the mother of all languages?"
So have you looked at F#[/url] yet? There is a mother! I'll get my head around it. Yeah, byt the time they introduce Z# maybe!

same here, i was thinking of F# also as Dr. Dobbs had a brief email article about it.

TomThomson SSC Guru Points: 104773 More actions · Answer 12

What can you do in one that you can't do in the other? Well, that's a stupid question - both languages are Turing-complete, so apart from limitations imposed by the storage available on the machine they are running on or by the lifetime of the universe you can compute anything that is effectively computable in either of them - anything you can do in one you can do in the other.

Which language is better? That may be are more sensible question, or maybe not. They both have full access to the various library functions/objects available through the CLR (although they use different syntax to do it) so there's no difference there. VB.net is a descendant of Basic, so it's based on crap. C# is a descendent of C++, so it's based on crap. So the question boils down to "which is the better brand of crap?". I don't think there's a useful answer.

I'll admit to a really stupid thing I do: I write JScript - and that's also based on crap! I find it slightly easier to read, write, and debug than VB.net (I also find C# easier to read etc. than VB.net, but not as easy as JScript) but maybe that's because of some of my background is in one of the Algol 68 variants (one that saw real industrial use).

If I had a free choice of languages "supported" by MS I would choose to write in F#, but that's not yet released for .net use (although you can get it if you want to use an unreleased language). That has its roots in Haskell and ML, both civilized languages, so unlike C# and VB.net it doesn't inherit much crap (and I had a hand - a very unimportant and minor hand - in the initial definition of one of those ancestors, so I find it easy to understand where it's coming from and I'm biased in its favour).

Tom