October 9, 2009 at 8:42 am
blandry, I wonder about recycling those products (not specifically because of your post, but good lead-in). Some I know are too outdated to do users any good in communicating with the rest of the world (meaning the technologies and maybe the books) but surely some part of the globe could use the cables/etc? Even if they're slow/old but still function, wouldn't donating them to a developing nation help to get the rest of the world online faster, and reduce landfill?
Been wondering about how to take advantage of this at work with old hardware, i.e. donating to providers to help with electronic medical records/claim submission, or donating to low-income members to help get access to medical services online, so interested in your (or anyone's) thoughts on the matter.
*Edit - realized I was hijacking Steve's thread, apologies Steve. Any respondants to my ramblings, please post in a new thread I started here. Thanks,
Jon
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
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"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
October 9, 2009 at 9:00 am
Absolutely without question yes. As a consultant it's even more important than for a full time employee. When you're consulting, up to date, deep knowledge = work. If there's stuff you don't know then that's potential work that you're losing out on.
Whether the knowledge is acquired by formal courses, books, conferences or just playing around depends, but the keeping up to date is not optional.
I pay for my own training, have for quite some years. When I worked for the bank I still bought my own books, bank paid for others and for exams. Now I pay for books, conferences and any other training material I need.
I'm doing my M.Sc, but that's not for work, that's because I want to study formally further than undergrad.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 9, 2009 at 9:13 am
GilaMonster (10/9/2009)
Absolutely without question yes. As a consultant it's even more important than for a full time employee. When you're consulting, up to date, deep knowledge = work. If there's stuff you don't know then that's potential work that you're losing out on.Whether the knowledge is acquired by formal courses, books, conferences or just playing around depends, but the keeping up to date is not optional.
I pay for my own training, have for quite some years. When I worked for the bank I still bought my own books, bank paid for others and for exams. Now I pay for books, conferences and any other training material I need.
I'm doing my M.Sc, but that's not for work, that's because I want to study formally further than undergrad.
Dont necessary agree with some of that, being freelance for practically all of my career. deep knowledge is just deep knowledge, without experience of doing that at a client, it means very little. As an example I dont apply for any work that involves datawarehousing, purely because I have never done that at a client. it is true I could read books or attend courses but I would be lying to myself if I though that made me qualified to go to a client that needs someone to build a datawarehouse from scratch. that would make me no better than some of the recent topics from people who think they can lie their way into a dba role.
I dont deny that you have to keep uptodate but as I posted before, it is an individual choice how they choose to update themselves and the costs and benefits associated with that.
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October 9, 2009 at 9:18 am
Fatal Exception Error (10/9/2009)
Loner (10/9/2009)
People working for the government have no motivation to change or learn anything new. I am very frustrated now at my position.:angry:
This is so true and one of the reasons why I am never working for the government again. That and there is no way to work around the office politics.
My personal stance is its fine if my employer does not want to pay for my training. That shows how much they value you as an individual. I will train myself for my next job.
Re: govt: I disagree with this. In my situation, working for government, I am challeneged every day learning new technologies and techniques regularly. Maybe my situation is unusual but I haven't been bored once since I've been here. I look forward to work each day.
Now that that's out of the way... I agree with being responsible for one's own training and education. It's important to remain on top of the trends in technology. If your employer won't pay for it, you need to find a way to do it yourself. It isn't easy and much of what you learn is outdated pretyy quickly but you still have to do it.
October 9, 2009 at 9:30 am
I almost was not going to weigh in on this. But it's Friday, and it's me. :rolleyes:
I have had employer paid training and it was helpful. Then I've had access to training materials owned by the employer that I used after hours. I have taken courses and those are great too. I tend to by my own books. Yes they get outdated but that is because our industry changes so fast. I would rather have an outdated book than to be outdated myself.
ATBCharles Kincaid
October 9, 2009 at 9:30 am
Silverfox (10/9/2009)
it is true I could read books or attend courses but I would be lying to myself if I though that made me qualified to go to a client that needs someone to build a datawarehouse from scratch. that would make me no better than some of the recent topics from people who think they can lie their way into a dba role.
Then I guess I'm no better than our Italian friend. I did my first data warehousing project for a client a month after moving to consulting with no prior DW experience. My colleague designed it and left the entire implementation to me. Done two more since. I don't claim to be an expert on data warehousing, far from it. I can do the simple stuff, defer the complex stuff to my colleague and learn from him.
I won't do anything for a client that I haven't played with before, but testing out stuff at home, installing, fiddling, breaking, fixing, etc counts (for me at least) as played with
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 9, 2009 at 9:37 am
Kenneth Wymore (10/9/2009)
You never know what the future will hold so I think it pays to be diligent in advancing your own skills even if you can't put them into practice at your place of work. At my last job I constantly checked out new software and tools that I thought were interesting without the company paying for training. I would spend time on the weekends when the weather was bad or sometimes late at night trying out new tools and trying to further my existing skill sets even though I knew the company would not adopt many of them. This helped me immensely when I switched jobs and found my new company used many of the tools that I had been tinkering with on my own dime.
I agree with several people that it's important to stay aware of the current technology trends and invest in training yourself, either formally or informally. I have had to make some major career changes over the past 25 years, and I learned immediately how important it was to invest in myself.
I've paid a lot of money for formal classes as well as buying training manuals etc. to learn on my own. Sometimes my company has paid for one-two day semainers.
This year, my boss suggested to a co-worker that he take a specific class, and that co-worker has complained about it! It drives me crazy to see people who DON'T want to learn!
October 9, 2009 at 9:41 am
IANGS (I Am Not Gail Shaw 😛 ) but I would consider it valid to have read a book, played on your own, and listed it as 'familiar with [insert tech here]'. As long as you're up-front, and confident that you can do what you're promising to on-time and responsibly, you're good to go.
Now if I were hiring Gail to do something and she said she hadn't actually done it in real work experience, I don't think I'd care as much. I doubt she could do a shoddy job if she tried, it'd keep her up at night. More than she already is.:hehe:
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
October 9, 2009 at 9:44 am
GilaMonster (10/9/2009)
Silverfox (10/9/2009)
it is true I could read books or attend courses but I would be lying to myself if I though that made me qualified to go to a client that needs someone to build a datawarehouse from scratch. that would make me no better than some of the recent topics from people who think they can lie their way into a dba role.Then I guess I'm no better than our Italian friend. I did my first data warehousing project for a client a month after moving to consulting with no prior DW experience. My colleague designed it and left the entire implementation to me. Done two more since. I don't claim to be an expert on data warehousing, far from it. I can do the simple stuff, defer the complex stuff to my colleague and learn from him.
I won't do anything for a client that I haven't played with before, but testing out stuff at home, installing, fiddling, breaking, fixing, etc counts (for me at least) as played with
There is a hell of a difference between you and the italian, so dont look at it in that context. I used to work with a ex-microsoft DBA , we both worked at BAA, when we both left after than I went to CitiBank and he went to Barclays, what he done at barclays was DW, but he had no experience but he was told it wasnt a problem. maybe he was lucky in that regard but I am always aware of my limitations sql server wise and dont waste my time or client if i have any doubts about my ability to do that role. cannot believe you compared yourself to that italian :pinch:
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October 9, 2009 at 9:53 am
Carla Wilson-484785 (10/9/2009)
This year, my boss suggested to a co-worker that he take a specific class, and that co-worker has complained about it! It drives me crazy to see people who DON'T want to learn!
I have never understood that.
When I worked at the bank, I used to mail interesting articles/blog posts to the rest of the DBA team. One guy asked me to stop sending as he just deleted the mails. I don't understand.
Then there was the other DBA who insisted that the company was responsible for training him, demanded that the company pay for training courses but never put any effort of his own in. We had a substantial SQL library there, I think I was the only one who read any of the book.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 9, 2009 at 9:59 am
I don't understand not taking advantage of a library. I'd love to be able to have a resource like that, I'm slowly building my own and one day i hope to have the time to read them.
October 9, 2009 at 10:09 am
Great to see so many people investing in themselves and taking responsibility for their career.
Just by visiting SQLServerCentral you're doing that. Learning, reading, asking/answering questions, those are part of your investment. Maybe not all of it, but it's some of it.
It doesn't have to be just $$, or even many $$. There are lots of places on the web that will help you learn, books help, there are lots of cheap ways to educate yourself.
Even employers that won't give you $$ will often give you something almost as valuable: time. If your boss will allow you time to study/train/learn, take advantage of it. Set yourself an appointment to work on your career.
October 9, 2009 at 10:12 am
I've started coming in to work an hour earlier so I can study (and do it in relative peace). If my kids go to bed nicely I even get some time at night. It's amazing how much material you can get through in an hour without interruptions.
October 9, 2009 at 10:45 am
Without a doubt. You snooze you lose (your job).
October 9, 2009 at 7:38 pm
In my 18 year career, I have not been fortunate enough to have my employers invest in me through training. The majority of my training has come from my own effort in self training. What little formal training that I have received has been totally out of my pocket. I understand that the employer needs to have a return on its investments, training being one of them. It is hard to demonstrate that the training will lower the total cost of ownership through lessening that amount of time needed to complete a task. Many times the quality of the solution will be greater because you have the necessary training to make an educated choice. Some companies will pay for training if you agree to stick with the company for a specified period of time. I would jump at this in a heartbeat.
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