June 15, 2016 at 8:41 am
Lynn Pettis (6/15/2016)
The only reason I don't think I would not make it through one of your interviews is that no matter how much you assure me that there are no trick questions, I'll still make everything harder than it actually is. Just in my nature.
You'd be convinced. That's why I start of with such simple questions... makes people relax if they actually know the basics.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 15, 2016 at 9:21 am
Jeff Moden (6/14/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/14/2016)
You'll rarely ever be asked pop quiz style questions like "What is a clustered index?" or "How do you get the current date and time?", unless part of your job involves mentoring an intern.So you would hire someone as a Senior Developer that could do the join in their head but knew nothing of clustered indexes and didn't know how to get the current date and time? And, no... not being sarcastic. I've actually had candidates that could erg out join answers but knew nothing of the fundamentals to make them work in an efficient manner. When I'm hiring someone for a Senior position, I want them to know the answers to such "pop quiz style" questions... and they'd better be able to answer the other questions those 2 simple questions segue into.
LOL! Let's see how long we can keep this thread going.
If a candidate can write a query based on verbal requirements, properly using joins, filtering, grouping, and aggregate functions, then they know how to use the date functions. Actually the sample problem I typically present them with (mentioned in an earlier post) requires the use of the getdate() function to filter the resultset. If for some odd reasons the canidate has been working with databases and queries that don't involve dates, then they can easily learn how to use it... it requires no parameters. It's a lot more difficult teaching someone how to analyze query plans or understand locking and isolation, so I value that knowledge more.
I also don't simply ask "What is a clustered index?". Instead what I ask is "What some common causes of clustered index fragmentation?", which then leads to several minutes of two way conversation, even debate, about the candidates thoughts regarding clustering key design, fill factor, and index maintenance plans.
If a candidate doens't know SQL or physical data modeling, then they will fail the interview. I just go about making that determination questions that are intended to test knowledge at more experiential level.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 15, 2016 at 9:33 am
Jeff Moden (6/15/2016)
GSquared (6/15/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/14/2016)
GSquared (6/14/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/10/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/10/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/7/2016)
They're asking the wrong type of questions for a job interview.I'm not saying that string manipulation is a bad question. It's just that for a one hour interview I'm splitting my time between one or two other interviewers, and I only get a chance to ask maybe a half dozen questions. So, I'd rather rather ask a quesion similar to one of the examples I provided earlier that digs deeper into their past experience. There are plenty of folks who actually good T-SQL coders, but for whatever reasons they can't understand the questions we're asking or can't "think on their feet". If I ask someone "Explain the difference between locking, blocking, and deadlocking" or "Explain why it's potentially a bad idea to place a function in a WHERE clause expression", and they fumble without providing an coherent intermediate level answer, then at that point I lose interest can couldn't care less whether they can slice and dice strings. I don't interview interns.
Ah... got it and now I understand where you're going with all of this and, in that case, I absolutely agree.
Most of the people I've had the great displeasure of interviewing don't make it past the 15 minute mark. I just don't have the time to dedicate past the first 3 questions if they don't even come close to correct answers on those first 3 questions. And, remember, the first question is always "How do you get the current date and time using T-SQL?" whether it's for a DBA or an Developer position. The other two vary but are never in the "SQL Ninja" category.
It's been really slim pickings here in this part of the U.S.A.
And the reply should be "Do you mean current server-time, or current UTC, or some sort of localized current time?"
Clear requirements make better code.
My answer then would be "Yes... all of them... and why you would use one over the other"?
Instead of answering a question with a question, you should identify the things that will do all the things you just mentioned since you're the one that brought them up in the interview.
Really? You want all of the infinite ways to get the current date and time in a computer system? And asking you to clarify a question is forbidden?
I sincerely hope I never get stuck in that interview. Not because I can't answer the questions, but because (per description) it sounds painfully awkward on a human level.
There aren't infinite ways in T-SQL. I will say that someone that expressed the outrage at a simple question as you just have wouldn't make it through one of my interviews. 😉
And yet, you know from years of experience on these forums and in other venues, that I'm a more than competent database architect and developer. You even borrowed one of your articles from a trick I taught you.
And not outrage. Read what you want to into my response. Joe Celko would be proud of you.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
June 15, 2016 at 9:40 am
Eric M Russell (6/15/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/14/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/14/2016)
You'll rarely ever be asked pop quiz style questions like "What is a clustered index?" or "How do you get the current date and time?", unless part of your job involves mentoring an intern.So you would hire someone as a Senior Developer that could do the join in their head but knew nothing of clustered indexes and didn't know how to get the current date and time? And, no... not being sarcastic. I've actually had candidates that could erg out join answers but knew nothing of the fundamentals to make them work in an efficient manner. When I'm hiring someone for a Senior position, I want them to know the answers to such "pop quiz style" questions... and they'd better be able to answer the other questions those 2 simple questions segue into.
LOL! Let's see how long we can keep this thread going.
If a candidate can write a query based on verbal requirements, properly using joins, filtering, grouping, and aggregate functions, then they know how to use the date functions. Actually the sample problem I typically present them with (mentioned in an earlier post) requires the use of the getdate() function to filter the resultset. If for some odd reasons the canidate has been working with databases and queries that don't involve dates, then they can easily learn how to use it... it requires no parameters. It's a lot more difficult teaching someone how to analyze query plans or understand locking and isolation, so I value that knowledge more.
I also don't simply ask "What is a clustered index?". Instead what I ask is "What some common causes of clustered index fragmentation?", which then leads to several minutes of two way conversation, even debate, about the candidates thoughts regarding clustering key design, fill factor, and index maintenance plans.
If a candidate doens't know SQL or physical data modeling, then they will fail the interview. I just go about making that determination questions that are intended to test knowledge at more experiential level.
It might not be a bad idea to go ahead and ask what a clustered index is first. It's a quick answer, then you can move on to the more complex issue of fragmentation. Besides, fragmentation applies to clus and non-clus alike, so a restriction to clus indexes in that context is rather odd.
SQL DBA,SQL Server MVP(07, 08, 09) "It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear." "Norm", on "Cheers". Also from "Cheers", from "Carla": "You need to know 3 things about Tortelli men: Tortelli men draw women like flies; Tortelli men treat women like flies; Tortelli men's brains are in their flies".
June 15, 2016 at 11:54 am
ScottPletcher (6/15/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/15/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/14/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/14/2016)
You'll rarely ever be asked pop quiz style questions like "What is a clustered index?" or "How do you get the current date and time?", unless part of your job involves mentoring an intern.So you would hire someone as a Senior Developer that could do the join in their head but knew nothing of clustered indexes and didn't know how to get the current date and time? And, no... not being sarcastic. I've actually had candidates that could erg out join answers but knew nothing of the fundamentals to make them work in an efficient manner. When I'm hiring someone for a Senior position, I want them to know the answers to such "pop quiz style" questions... and they'd better be able to answer the other questions those 2 simple questions segue into.
LOL! Let's see how long we can keep this thread going.
If a candidate can write a query based on verbal requirements, properly using joins, filtering, grouping, and aggregate functions, then they know how to use the date functions. Actually the sample problem I typically present them with (mentioned in an earlier post) requires the use of the getdate() function to filter the resultset. If for some odd reasons the canidate has been working with databases and queries that don't involve dates, then they can easily learn how to use it... it requires no parameters. It's a lot more difficult teaching someone how to analyze query plans or understand locking and isolation, so I value that knowledge more.
I also don't simply ask "What is a clustered index?". Instead what I ask is "What some common causes of clustered index fragmentation?", which then leads to several minutes of two way conversation, even debate, about the candidates thoughts regarding clustering key design, fill factor, and index maintenance plans.
If a candidate doens't know SQL or physical data modeling, then they will fail the interview. I just go about making that determination questions that are intended to test knowledge at more experiential level.
It might not be a bad idea to go ahead and ask what a clustered index is first. It's a quick answer, then you can move on to the more complex issue of fragmentation. Besides, fragmentation applies to clus and non-clus alike, so a restriction to clus indexes in that context is rather odd.
If they know what is a clustered index and what is page splits, fargmentation, and fill factor, then they'll just roll with it. The problem with the question "What is a clustered index?" is that it's so commonly shows up on a list of TOP X interview questions, there are a lot of folks who can provide the canned reply without essentially knowing what is a clustered index.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 15, 2016 at 12:07 pm
Eric M Russell (6/15/2016)
ScottPletcher (6/15/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/15/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/14/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/14/2016)
You'll rarely ever be asked pop quiz style questions like "What is a clustered index?" or "How do you get the current date and time?", unless part of your job involves mentoring an intern.So you would hire someone as a Senior Developer that could do the join in their head but knew nothing of clustered indexes and didn't know how to get the current date and time? And, no... not being sarcastic. I've actually had candidates that could erg out join answers but knew nothing of the fundamentals to make them work in an efficient manner. When I'm hiring someone for a Senior position, I want them to know the answers to such "pop quiz style" questions... and they'd better be able to answer the other questions those 2 simple questions segue into.
LOL! Let's see how long we can keep this thread going.
If a candidate can write a query based on verbal requirements, properly using joins, filtering, grouping, and aggregate functions, then they know how to use the date functions. Actually the sample problem I typically present them with (mentioned in an earlier post) requires the use of the getdate() function to filter the resultset. If for some odd reasons the canidate has been working with databases and queries that don't involve dates, then they can easily learn how to use it... it requires no parameters. It's a lot more difficult teaching someone how to analyze query plans or understand locking and isolation, so I value that knowledge more.
I also don't simply ask "What is a clustered index?". Instead what I ask is "What some common causes of clustered index fragmentation?", which then leads to several minutes of two way conversation, even debate, about the candidates thoughts regarding clustering key design, fill factor, and index maintenance plans.
If a candidate doens't know SQL or physical data modeling, then they will fail the interview. I just go about making that determination questions that are intended to test knowledge at more experiential level.
It might not be a bad idea to go ahead and ask what a clustered index is first. It's a quick answer, then you can move on to the more complex issue of fragmentation. Besides, fragmentation applies to clus and non-clus alike, so a restriction to clus indexes in that context is rather odd.
If they know what is a clustered index and what is page splits, fargmentation, and fill factor, then they'll just roll with it. The problem with the question "What is a clustered index?" is that it's so commonly shows up on a list of TOP X interview questions, there are a lot of folks who can provide the canned reply without essentially knowing what is a clustered index.
Maybe, but if they provide a canned reply, then they won't expand upon it. Those who know will probably expand beyond that to (hopefully) demonstrate greater knowledge of the subject. If not, further questioning regarding the topic should expose the posers.
June 15, 2016 at 3:36 pm
Eric M Russell (6/15/2016)
ScottPletcher (6/15/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/15/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/14/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/14/2016)
You'll rarely ever be asked pop quiz style questions like "What is a clustered index?" or "How do you get the current date and time?", unless part of your job involves mentoring an intern.So you would hire someone as a Senior Developer that could do the join in their head but knew nothing of clustered indexes and didn't know how to get the current date and time? And, no... not being sarcastic. I've actually had candidates that could erg out join answers but knew nothing of the fundamentals to make them work in an efficient manner. When I'm hiring someone for a Senior position, I want them to know the answers to such "pop quiz style" questions... and they'd better be able to answer the other questions those 2 simple questions segue into.
LOL! Let's see how long we can keep this thread going.
If a candidate can write a query based on verbal requirements, properly using joins, filtering, grouping, and aggregate functions, then they know how to use the date functions. Actually the sample problem I typically present them with (mentioned in an earlier post) requires the use of the getdate() function to filter the resultset. If for some odd reasons the canidate has been working with databases and queries that don't involve dates, then they can easily learn how to use it... it requires no parameters. It's a lot more difficult teaching someone how to analyze query plans or understand locking and isolation, so I value that knowledge more.
I also don't simply ask "What is a clustered index?". Instead what I ask is "What some common causes of clustered index fragmentation?", which then leads to several minutes of two way conversation, even debate, about the candidates thoughts regarding clustering key design, fill factor, and index maintenance plans.
If a candidate doens't know SQL or physical data modeling, then they will fail the interview. I just go about making that determination questions that are intended to test knowledge at more experiential level.
It might not be a bad idea to go ahead and ask what a clustered index is first. It's a quick answer, then you can move on to the more complex issue of fragmentation. Besides, fragmentation applies to clus and non-clus alike, so a restriction to clus indexes in that context is rather odd.
If they know what is a clustered index and what is page splits, fargmentation, and fill factor, then they'll just roll with it. The problem with the question "What is a clustered index?" is that it's so commonly shows up on a list of TOP X interview questions, there are a lot of folks who can provide the canned reply without essentially knowing what is a clustered index.
That's why I don't stop at the canned question/answer thing. If they say they don't know, then they don't. If they recite the same dribble littering the internet on "Interview Question" sites, that prompts me to delve deeper into that particular area to find out if they're a faker/poser (which I won't tolerate... form of dishonesty) or if they actually do know.
Of course, just like the GETDATE() question, it would be nice if they responded with something more thoughtful and informative instead of me having to drag details out of them. That would show not only their knowledge but demonstrate their ability to communicate. It's far easier to cut someone off than to have to pull teeth. Either you know it or you don't. If you do know it, take the opportunity to shine during the interview.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 15, 2016 at 3:39 pm
GSquared (6/15/2016)
And not outrage. Read what you want to into my response. Joe Celko would be proud of you.
Gosh Gus, who peed in your cheerios today? You seem all bent out of shape compared to your normal self. 😀
Just as you were "roll playing" to see what I was actually after, so am I. It wasn't meant to be personal. I apologize if it came out that way.
EDIT... p.s. Which article are you referring to?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 15, 2016 at 5:06 pm
Jeff Moden (6/15/2016)
An interview is the one place where volunteering information can do nothing but good... if you know what you're talking about. When someone asks a simple question about how to get the current date and time in T-SQL, they can really start to strut their stuff by answering something like the following instead of asking for clarification on such a simple question...
You are soooooo wrong!
You obviously have not been on another side of an interview for quite a long time.
Unfortunately, too many folks who've been appointed to conduct an interview have a limited knowledge of the subject. And they probably have no idea about that range of options you're talking about.
They expect you to answer with that one particular option they do know about.
If you start bringing all the other smart sh.t they will fill threatened, label you "nerd" in their minds and, at the best, report you as "overqualified for the position". At the worst - difficult to communicate.
There must be a dozen of interviewers like that in the world, and 99% of applicants will never even see your advertisement.
To be successful in job hunting applicants need to fit into a more common pattern, like - figure out what kind of answer they want from you and give that single simple response the interviewer would be able to digest.
And when they get to your interview they have no indication that they deal with an odd freak, and they must behave differently.
Give then a sign - and you'll get totally different sorts of applicants and answers on your interviews.
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
June 15, 2016 at 5:13 pm
Sergiy (6/15/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/15/2016)
An interview is the one place where volunteering information can do nothing but good... if you know what you're talking about. When someone asks a simple question about how to get the current date and time in T-SQL, they can really start to strut their stuff by answering something like the following instead of asking for clarification on such a simple question...You are soooooo wrong!
You obviously have not been on another side of an interview for quite a long time.
Unfortunately, too many folks who've been appointed to conduct an interview have a limited knowledge of the subject. And they probably have no idea about that range of options you're talking about.
They expect you to answer with that one particular option they do know about.
If you start bringing all the other smart sh.t they will fill threatened, label you "nerd" in their minds and, at the best, report you as "overqualified for the position". At the worst - difficult to communicate.
There must be a dozen of interviewers like that in the world, and 99% of applicants will never even see your advertisement.
To be successful in job hunting applicants need to fit into a more common pattern, like - figure out what kind of answer they want from you and give that single simple response the interviewer would be able to digest.
And when they get to your interview they have no indication that they deal with an odd freak, and they must behave differently.
Give then a sign - and you'll get totally different sorts of applicants and answers on your interviews.
Most interviews I have had lately have been with tech savvy individuals, not individuals from HR. So I guess it depends on the company you are interview with as to who may be asking the questions. I would hope that someone not familiar with the technologies used by a company would not be conducting a technical interview.
June 15, 2016 at 5:39 pm
Jeff Moden (6/15/2016)
GSquared (6/15/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/14/2016)
GSquared (6/14/2016)
Jeff Moden (6/10/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/10/2016)
Eric M Russell (6/7/2016)
They're asking the wrong type of questions for a job interview.I'm not saying that string manipulation is a bad question. It's just that for a one hour interview I'm splitting my time between one or two other interviewers, and I only get a chance to ask maybe a half dozen questions. So, I'd rather rather ask a quesion similar to one of the examples I provided earlier that digs deeper into their past experience. There are plenty of folks who actually good T-SQL coders, but for whatever reasons they can't understand the questions we're asking or can't "think on their feet". If I ask someone "Explain the difference between locking, blocking, and deadlocking" or "Explain why it's potentially a bad idea to place a function in a WHERE clause expression", and they fumble without providing an coherent intermediate level answer, then at that point I lose interest can couldn't care less whether they can slice and dice strings. I don't interview interns.
Ah... got it and now I understand where you're going with all of this and, in that case, I absolutely agree.
Most of the people I've had the great displeasure of interviewing don't make it past the 15 minute mark. I just don't have the time to dedicate past the first 3 questions if they don't even come close to correct answers on those first 3 questions. And, remember, the first question is always "How do you get the current date and time using T-SQL?" whether it's for a DBA or an Developer position. The other two vary but are never in the "SQL Ninja" category.
It's been really slim pickings here in this part of the U.S.A.
And the reply should be "Do you mean current server-time, or current UTC, or some sort of localized current time?"
Clear requirements make better code.
My answer then would be "Yes... all of them... and why you would use one over the other"?
Instead of answering a question with a question, you should identify the things that will do all the things you just mentioned since you're the one that brought them up in the interview.
Really? You want all of the infinite ways to get the current date and time in a computer system? And asking you to clarify a question is forbidden?
I sincerely hope I never get stuck in that interview. Not because I can't answer the questions, but because (per description) it sounds painfully awkward on a human level.
There aren't infinite ways in T-SQL. I will say that someone that expressed the outrage at a simple question as you just have wouldn't make it through one of my interviews. 😉
In science they say - the shorter the title the deeper the book.
Your "simple question" is not really that simple.
Someone who knew that "simple answer on a simple question" put that "Posted time" on every one of our posts. It was as simple as it's useless.
The time definitely does not indicate the correct posting time - from where I look at it.
And there is no indication where on Earth it shows the correct time.
And if it considers DLS - local to the region where the server is set up. Which we have no way to identify.
Actually, your "simple question" does not have a correct answer.
The only correct answer would be a question in response.
Probably, more that one question in response.
Until your requirements become clear.
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
June 15, 2016 at 5:51 pm
Lynn Pettis (6/15/2016)
So I guess it depends on the company you are interview with as to who may be asking the questions. I would hope that someone not familiar with the technologies used by a company would not be conducting a technical interview.
Oh, they very well aware of the technologies used by their companies.
Because their companies can use only those technologies which they are aware of.
:hehe:
A "Business Intelligence Specialist" will ask you for most in-depth knowledge of setting up SSIS packages, but you'll lose him the moment you mention about any other means of integrations with SQL Server.
Because SSIS is the only thing he knows.
And therefore SSIS is the only technology the company uses.
And those other options you're talking about are out of the scope - congratulations, you've failed the interview!
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
June 15, 2016 at 6:01 pm
In science they say - the shorter the title the deeper the book.
Your "simple question" is not really that simple.
Someone who knew that "simple answer on a simple question" put that "Posted time" on every one of our posts. It was as simple as it's useless.
The time definitely does not indicate the correct posting time - from where I look at it.
And there is no indication where on Earth it shows the correct time.
And if it considers DLS - local to the region where the server is set up. Which we have no way to identify.
Actually, your "simple question" does not have a correct answer.
The only correct answer would be a question in response.
Probably, more that one question in response.
Until your requirements become clear.
Off topic but the posted time is controlled by the timezone setting and DLS setting of your forum profile. Change these to the value relevant to your location and you'll get the correct time.
June 15, 2016 at 6:10 pm
Sergiy (6/15/2016)
Actually, your "simple question" does not have a correct answer.The only correct answer would be a question in response.
Probably, more that one question in response.
Until your requirements become clear.
The answer I posted would be great to hear. Unfortunately, I get "I don't know" or "I've never had to do such a thing before" or bad guesses like @Now. Anything that shows that they actually have some lights on when it comes to T-SQL.
But, you and Gus both see... ultimately and if you have worked with dates in SQL Server, the question can get quite complicated especially not knowing the reason why you might want to get the current date and time. But that's a part of the interview, as well. Knowing that the question is an interview question to test some basic knowledge, the candidate probably shouldn't over-engineer the answer, especially in the form of multiple questions for clarification of such a simple question clearly asked to test the basic knowledge. Although I'd like to see an answer like the one I gave, even a simple GETDATE() would be head and shoulders improvement over the "dunnos" and bad guesses I've had to contend with, so far.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 15, 2016 at 6:13 pm
FridayNightGiant (6/15/2016)
In science they say - the shorter the title the deeper the book.
Your "simple question" is not really that simple.
Someone who knew that "simple answer on a simple question" put that "Posted time" on every one of our posts. It was as simple as it's useless.
The time definitely does not indicate the correct posting time - from where I look at it.
And there is no indication where on Earth it shows the correct time.
And if it considers DLS - local to the region where the server is set up. Which we have no way to identify.
Actually, your "simple question" does not have a correct answer.
The only correct answer would be a question in response.
Probably, more that one question in response.
Until your requirements become clear.
Off topic but the posted time is controlled by the timezone setting and DLS setting of your forum profile. Change these to the value relevant to your location and you'll get the correct time.
My "Location" in the Forum Profile says "Auckland, New Zealand".
Current time in Auckland, New Zealand is 12:12 pm.
The "Posted" label indicates Today @ 1:12 am.
That's how I see it being here, in Auckland, NewZealand.
Must be London DSL time.
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
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