November 5, 2009 at 10:42 am
About 2 weeks a go, I read a very similar article lamenting the fact that this country is not producing engineers in most of the engineering fields, not just computer related. The article was not gender based but applied to any or everyone. So it's no wonder that female engineering students feel even more pressure.
But it also means more opportunity for those that want it.
And I think that is part of the problem. A lot of kids/young adults today don't have the ability to create ambition or passion to pursue a profession that truly interests them. Maybe we as parents made it too easy for them. Call it fallout from the boomer generation. I know that's a general statement. None of my kids want anything to do IT/computer work except when theirs doesn't work anymore then they come see Dad for advise and a free tech call!
Hmmm, maybe they are smarter than I think!
November 5, 2009 at 10:43 am
Being fairly fresh out of college, about three years, with a degree in Computer Science, I relate to why there are so few young people pursuing careers in technology. To start with, the schooling is no joke. It takes significantly more time and effort to get a Computer Science degree than many other degrees. Then, entering the workforce, you are entry level. There's nothing wrong with that, but, given the amount of on the job training and experience I've had, I could have progressed simlarly but on a different track with a Business degree. Then there's the work. In my experience, if you support a system, you have to be willing to be available 24-7-365. The systems you support have to stay up even if that means you are doing triage at 3:30 am on a Saturday night. Then to top it off, there is a lack of respect by some because of the general stereotype of an IT worker (think Jimmy Fallon on SNL playing the IT guy). I will say that the pay isn't bad, but is it worth it in the long run? The question any young person getting into the technology arena needs to ask themself is, is it worth putting in a lot of work, sacrificing your personal time, and dealing with the occassional disrespectful person to make a good living and be comfortable fifteen years down the line?
There is definitely a problem with job satisfaction. If you look at the Computerworld interview Kathleen Melymuka did with Sylvia Ann Hewlett in June 2008, Hewlett, founding president of the Center for Work-Life Policy in New York, says that 52% of women in engineering and technology leave the sector. That is incredibly high. I can fully understand it too. You must have a love for technology to stay with it. It is almost an abusive career choice. You put in so much time and effort but don't really get to see the truly positive impact that you're having, because the only time anybody talks to you about your system is when they are having a problem. As far as women not entering the technology field and exiting it much earlier and in greater numbers than men, I believe that can be attributed to many women knowing when it's time to cut their losses and leave. It seems like it is an admission of being wrong or defeat when, in reality, it's not. It's just an intelligent, personal choice. I would imagine that many men have a much more difficult time making this decision even though they want to (the whole male pride/machismo thing that many men have, even if they don't realize it).
In reality, the question isn't "How do we get more women in technology fields?" The real question is "How do we get the people that are currently in technology fields to enjoy what they do and stay with it for their whole career?" If we can figure that out, then more young people will see the level of satisfaction in the technology fields and make the decision to enter them. To be truthful, if a college student were to ask me if they should enter into the IT field, I would tell them no. Unless you love computers, are willing to spend more weekends and nights working than your friends, and really think that you can handle hearing primarily complaints for the rest of your career, then don't do it.
November 5, 2009 at 12:20 pm
That's an interesting view. I wonder, though, if it's the message to send. Plenty of people in other professions, doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, etc. work weekends and long hours. That's to some extent, being a professional in a new field.
What I'd hope is that you'd look to inspire someone that has an interest. Not convince them that IT or technology is great, but let them know what if they do like it, consider a career.
It is definitely harder for some groups of people to consider technology. Women, especially younger women might ignore it because they worry about not being cool. We ought to let them know that if they like it, give it a try.
November 5, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (11/5/2009)
That's an interesting view. I wonder, though, if it's the message to send. Plenty of people in other professions, doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, etc. work weekends and long hours. That's to some extent, being a professional in a new field. ...
Burnout in the medical professions is huge. Last I read, psychiatrists have a higher suicide rate than any other profession. My mother was a nurse when she was in her 20s, and I've known a lot of medical people (doctors, nurses, etc.) who get burned out and leave that field. Some can't take the life-or-death pressure, some can't take the hyper-regulation, some can't take the hyper-litigation, the reasons vary, but it's a high burnout field.
Lawyers generally get in it for the money. And some do make absolutely fabulous incomes. Again, though, it's a high burnout field of endeavor. Most don't make the incredible incomes they dreamed of when they went into law school, and many of those end up with the kind of boring jobs that most people associate with accountants or file clerks. And, of course, lawyers have to put up with jokes that are at least as vicious as nerd/geek jokes.
And so on.
It takes passion to do really well in any field. Knowledge alone won't do it. It's easier for a passionate person to learn data than for an educated person to spontaneously become passionate. It's also harder to maintain passion over time than it is to retain/expand knowledge.
There are solutions to that problem, but there are also barriers to it. The high demand, low respect, and mediocre pay that most IT people end up getting at their jobs aren't a key to passionate workers. (When I say "mediocre pay", I mean compared to other professions. I seriously doubt that the top-paid DBAs in the world make anywhere near what the top-paid lawyers do, for example. Even a well-paid software dev does't make what a well-paid plastic surgeon does. And so on.)
So, if you want passion about IT work, you'd have to first talk to people passionate about it, and find the common threads to that, and then market the heck out of it. Same applies for any technical field.
Me? I'm not so much passionate about IT directly, as I am excited by the advantages I've been able to bring to small businesses through IT. IT is a means, not an end, for me. I'm just as happy in a large number of other roles, so long as I feel that I'm really making the business a better, smarter, more competitive player in its chosen field. Lose that feeling (like I have with my current job), and I'm looking for something else to do (like I currently am).
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November 5, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Steve,
This is a very nice article but WIT leadership is neither skilled nor current so helping girls will remain a dream.
Yes IT is a closed profession for white men and the women chosen by said men to excel are not necessarily the brightest women. I still remember the brilliant women in the SQL Server 7.0 days that moved on.
I don't agree that 18 year olds cannot do math because most engineering foreign borns excel in the US because of availability of resources to learn, so the US have left women and minority children out of engineering education with invalid justification.
I don't think Cloud will replace regular technology because like the early days of the internet actual engineering is limited to none.
Side note good to know the privileged are still telling people without boots to pull up the boot strap.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
November 5, 2009 at 2:58 pm
As a woman in IT, I can say that the hours are not conducive to having a family. I am a single mum so I certainly cannot do extensive overtime let alone be on call 24/7 (the authorities frown on leaving your little one home alone ;-)). I think many women drop out as they start having families and decide to work part time jobs. There just aren't many part time jobs in IT. I know that half of my female friends with children will only work part time, mostly due to the cost of childcare not the job itself. My niche is database & applications developer and part time DBA for a very understanding boss. This is easier time wise than jobs such as network engineer or systems engineer.
I see software development on a par with any other job that requires further education. We can't all be successful entrepreneurs! It gives me a comfortable living and I equate it with jobs like being an accountant or an electrician. I would certainly encourage anyone to pursue it as a career if they had the aptitude. I love it!
Cheers!
Nicole Bowman
Nothing is forever.
November 6, 2009 at 5:53 am
"Yes IT is a closed profession for white men and the women chosen by said men to excel are not necessarily the brightest women. I still remember the brilliant women in the SQL Server 7.0 days that moved on."
I could not disagree more. I work with plenty of brilliant women who fall under the "genius" category. And I don't think the men "choose" who will excel - nobody determines my success or failure except me. Did I have to fight a little harder than my buddies in the next cube? Maybe. But the upside is that I get to come to work every day doing something I actually like. IT, computers, engineering etc were never presented as options by my high school career counselor. And because I follow "installation manuals" so well, I stumbled around trying to be a nurse or teacher. Kids need to realize that they can do what they want AND what they are good at. Sorry for the rant, but this topic is near and dear to my heart. Really, the long hours, the disrespect, the lack of recognition... who cares? I love what I do, am good at it, and I get paid! Jackpot. 😀
November 6, 2009 at 9:27 am
As a woman in IT, I can say that the hours are not conducive to having a family. I am a single mum so I certainly cannot do extensive overtime let alone be on call 24/7 (the authorities frown on leaving your little one home alone
This is so true. When I was on call and I had to go in to fix something on weekends, I had to bring my son along. My boss was not happy about it but I had no choice. One time my son had chicken pox and I went to daycare to pick him up at 11:20am, my boss called me at 1:00pm and asked me when I could go back to work!!!! They also told me they could not give me a promotion because everyday I had to leave at 5pm to pick up my son at daycare.
A lot of women dropped out of IT after they had children and with the technology changed so fast, after absent a few years, you could not come back any more.
I had worked for 10 companies, I was the ONLY woman developer in half of the companies I worked for.
November 6, 2009 at 11:57 am
Nicole, those are good points, but employers should work with people in situations. There are single men with issues that are the same, and there are other professions (doctors, etc.) that do help them
November 6, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Oh Steve, I think you need to come off the farm for a while and get reacquainted with life in the city. It's not an empolyee favored market anymore.
BTW, nice skirt in the PASS photos. Maybe you are becoming more sympathetic in your old age! :w00t:
November 6, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Bob Hoffman-209065 (11/6/2009)
Oh Steve, I think you need to come off the farm for a while and get reacquainted with life in the city. It's not an empolyee favored market anymore.BTW, nice skirt in the PASS photos. Maybe you are becoming more sympathetic in your old age! :w00t:
Heh... I think the kilt was made of Nylon so wouldn't that be becoming more "synthetic" in your ols age? 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 6, 2009 at 9:10 pm
laurav (11/6/2009)
I could not disagree more. I work with plenty of brilliant women who fall under the "genius" category. And I don't think the men "choose" who will excel - nobody determines my success or failure except me. Did I have to fight a little harder than my buddies in the next cube? Maybe. But the upside is that I get to come to work every day doing something I actually like. IT, computers, engineering etc were never presented as options by my high school career counselor. And because I follow "installation manuals" so well, I stumbled around trying to be a nurse or teacher. Kids need to realize that they can do what they want AND what they are good at. Sorry for the rant, but this topic is near and dear to my heart. Really, the long hours, the disrespect, the lack of recognition... who cares? I love what I do, am good at it, and I get paid! Jackpot. 😀
Male, female, black, white, or purple, that's the perfect attitude for anyone. Well said! 🙂 I've not had to worry about any kids (didn't have any) but I've run into many obstacles where I could have given up and didn't. Like you said...
I love what I do, am good at it, and I get paid! Jackpot. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 6, 2009 at 10:06 pm
I could not disagree more. I work with plenty of brilliant women who fall under the "genius" category. And I don't think the men "choose" who will excel - nobody determines my success or failure except me. Did I have to fight a little harder than my buddies in the next cube? Maybe. But the upside is that I get to come to work every day doing something I actually like. IT, computers, engineering etc were never presented as options by my high school career counselor. And because I follow "installation manuals" so well, I stumbled around trying to be a nurse or teacher
I have great respect for nursing and teaching professions so mileage varies. I started the Houston SQL Server developer SIG back in 2005 when I was in Houston because I have seen many brilliant ones don't know the difference between UNION and UNION ALL.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
November 6, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Heh... what's really funny about that is I've seen the same thing. And, they all knew that boots had straps but didn't know what a boot looked like. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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