September 28, 2011 at 12:54 pm
To chime in on the job postings, interviews, and even the credit check stuff:
Job postings are almost never accurate. When I was job hunting last year, I had two that had lists of requirements that could not possibly be met by any one person. Expertise in SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL, .NET, ColdFusion, PEARL, C, Windows and AD administration, and so on. On paper, they were advertising for a medium-sized department, not a single person. Of course, what they both really wanted was just an experienced SQL Server DBA.
Solution: Ask the recruiter what they really need, and then ask again in the interview. "I see on your requirements that you want your DBA to be a nuclear engineer and a short-order cook. I can't really do all of those things. What are you actually looking for?" They'll answer, and generally appreciate your honesty.
On interviews, expect them to be outrageous, either in terms of "what does any of this have to do with being a DBA?" or in terms of "I'm sorry, I'm not really the person you need if you really want your DBA to be configuring your firewall and DMZ", or in terms of being asked questions like, "What's a table?", or "Is Microsoft really owned by Sybase still?" Deal with it. And definitely judge them just as much or more than they judge you. One thing I suggest, is ask to meet more of the team you'll be working with than just the manager. Some will arrange this, some won't, but it will give you more insight into the potential work environment than just about anything else.
I interviewed for 6 jobs in 5 days last year. Got offers for all 6. Four I turned down without a single qualm, because of how they handled the interview process. In one, the manager was so stressed out she looked ready for a nervous collapse, and explained to me that this was because she was "having a bad day". I can't be sure, but it looked like she couldn't handle stress, and that's the last thing you want in a manager. Perhaps she could, and her idea of a bad day would be most people's idea of a total disaster, like her house burned down before work, and she'd be fine to work for 99.9% of the time, but the only data I had was what was in front of me, and it looked like a bad deal. You have to judge them.
On credit ratings for insurance and employment: My credit score is pretty bad, mainly because of having to short-sell a house a few years ago, so I get to pay extra for car insurance and all that. On the other hand, I've never been in any sort of accident, and I've only ever had one ticket, and I've been driving since the mid-1980s. Pay extra for insurance? Where does that make sense?
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
September 28, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Definately some good advice there, thanks for sharing!
I totally agree on the credit stuff... it's rediculous. I almost wish I could sue them cause to me it feels like discrimination. And yea, when I got my top secret clearance it was very intense. They asked me all kinds of questions and I had to provide listings of all my creditors and explain like everything that was on my credit report .... and I still got the clearance. And since I don't really care who knows this, the reason is because I filed for bankruptcy in 2009. So, needless to say when this job (that would have been perfect for me) told me that they wouldn't hire ANYONE with a bankruptcy in the last 7 seven years, I was sort of livid. This is an IT job for a shipping company... so I was like why do you care if I filed for bankruptcy? Does that impede my ability to write a stored procedure? I don't think so....and what exactly is the reasoning behind it... I'm a bad person because I had to file?
I feel bad for anybody that actually works at the company because, especially in northern va, Bankruptcies are on the rise. An exorbant amount of people have had to file in the last few years. Much like GSquared, due to real estate problems. I was unemployed for over 6 months and I had an upside down condo ... it was a no brainer for me to file. I didn't do it because I felt like wracking up lots of gambling debts and then not paying them.
I heard that some states actually laws against people not hiring you for your credit. Unfortunately mine isn't one of them. And the really annoying part, is that even with my bankruptcy, I have really good credit now. We tried to fight them on it and the hiring manager really tried to push it all the way up to the CEO but they were like "we can't do it for her unless we do it for everyone". My response to that is WHY NOT?? Nobody will ever know unless you tell them... and besides its a really stupid rule.
Ok sorry off my soap box now... 🙂
September 28, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Simply put, we as a society put too much value on money.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
September 28, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Yeah getting interviewed by FBI for clearance is sure fun.. Nothing like getting grilled for hours.. Fun like that I can do without again..
I think I'm gonna start hounding my reps on this credit check thing in my state..
CEWII
September 29, 2011 at 11:24 am
amy26 (9/28/2011)
Basically, I'm bored as gov't life (at least at my agency) doesn't allow for creativity or implementing new and exciting things. The extent of my day usually consists of creating a table, writing an import procedure and possibly creating an SSRS report for a system I implemented for my employer. I'm basically getting left behind in technology and I do not get to do any kind of high end SQL stuff... even though I have over 12 years in this field, I've never done anything with clustering, mirroring, broker services, or any kind of .NET or programming.
Sounds fairly typical. I work for a SAAS commpany and it is not much more exciting. None of my DBA jobs in my career (11 years) have been "exciting", so that isssue is common whether you are a government contractor or working for a private company.
So, I started looking for a new job (preferably not in gov't) and I'm really blown away by the job descriptions. For a normal SQL developer I see things like must have C#, .NET, windows administration, experience in all the SQL stuff I don't do and years of experience in SQL 2008. I just got our shop to upgrade to 2005 from 2000. I do have training in 2008, but not actual implemented systems. Or, the job is way junior and I'm totally over qualified for it.
Job descriptions are typically impossible wish lists with a lot of buzz words. I have been purely Microsoft SQL Server since the year 2000, with experience on every version between SQL Server 7 and SQL Server 2008 R2. But if someone asked me to do something with C# I would just be clueless at this point. I don't think that will hurt you at all. There are only so many things that a person can be an expert on.
I have decided to focus on all aspects of SQL Server. SSAS, SSIS, SSRS, etc. This has never hurt my career. My phone/email are filled with recruiters contacting me trying to lure me away from my current employer. If you want to focus purely on the aspects of being a DBA or database developer, that will not hold back your career at all. Being an expert in databases is in high demand.
At my contract job prior to my current fulltime position, I had the same issue with 2005. The company was just now (in 2010) migrating to SQL Server 2005. It was just because they were government and lacked the funding or need for the latest features. Those jobs can be a dead end for a career. If your current employer is using a version that is so far away from the latest, it is a danger to you long term.
My current job has SQL Server 2008 clusters for everything and our reporting server is based on 2008 R2. But even here we still have one system that is on SQL Server 2000. But that is the value of being a DBA with a lot of experience. Even cutting edge companies can have old legacy systems that are on older versions. Those DBAs with experience on all of those versions have an advantage in the job market. My old MCDBA certification from version 7 and 2000 always gets me phone calls.
I live in DC, so the market is very competitive. I'm wondering if I should be looking at getting a certification or just keep plugging away? Generally, are these job ads that are asking for the sun the moon and the stars willing to take someone who knows their stuff but just needs to come up to speed on some of the more advanced features?
Forcus on the SQL Server certifications. If you had all four of the main certs along with your experience, you would have to fight off companies trying to steal you away.
Get these four certs: 70-432, 70-433, 70-450, 70-451
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/cert-sql-server.aspx#tab3
Getting those certifications will also expose you to the SQL Server features that you don't typically use on a day to day basis.
You will be able to talk intelligently about them even if you have not had an opportunity to use them in practice.
September 29, 2011 at 11:49 am
I have actually had some exciting SQL positions where I have the freedom to do cool and innovative stuff. I absolutely love automating processes or process reengineering... so anytime I get to do that stuff I like. But ya you are right I need to get out of my situation cause I'm getting left behind. The other developer that has been here for like 5 years doesn't care. He actually likes doing things the same ole same ole and not doing anything cutting edge. When we upgraded to SQL 2005 I had to fight him to make him stop coding things with DOS cmd files.
I do have some progress on the job front though... I have one interview tomorrow that the lady says I would be "perfect" for. And it does sound exciting... its for a company that handles military data from Iraq and Afganistan to track and monitor US employees while they are overseas and keep them safe. Its one of these wierd jobs where I would work for the recruiter for a year and then after a year could go perm with the company or stay with the recruiter at either the same company or be placed elsewhere. I still find this working for recruiter thing a bit wierd.
Then I have another interview on Monday (from the phone interview I had yesterday) for a company that does all the data/reporting for an Audi dealership.
I think both of these jobs will give me more exposure to the advanced SQL features... I just hope they'll give me time to come up to speed. Which I'm sure won't be hard for me.
This is the longest its ever taken me to find a job, so its kind of annoying. I'm getting slammed with calls and emails about jobs but most of them are not for me or too far away. So, I hope I will get something soon. 🙂
September 29, 2011 at 12:06 pm
amy26 (9/29/2011)
I do have some progress on the job front though... I have one interview tomorrow that the lady says I would be "perfect" for. And it does sound exciting... its for a company that handles military data from Iraq and Afganistan to track and monitor US employees while they are overseas and keep them safe. Its one of these wierd jobs where I would work for the recruiter for a year and then after a year could go perm with the company or stay with the recruiter at either the same company or be placed elsewhere. I still find this working for recruiter thing a bit wierd.
That is actually very common. Contract-to-hire is how many full-time jobs happen. 3-6 months on contract, then rollover to fulltime.
This is the longest its ever taken me to find a job, so its kind of annoying. I'm getting slammed with calls and emails about jobs but most of them are not for me or too far away. So, I hope I will get something soon. 🙂
Think about that for a minute. We have the highest unemployment since WW2 and you are slammed with calls and emails, most of them too far away.
That tells you how desperate some companies are. They have to reach out beyond their local area to try to lure people to interview. I live in the Seattle area and I constantly get calls asking my interest in moving. I think IT unemployment is something like 3%, which is basically full employment. Anyone wanting to work can find a job within a reasonable time period.
Would you rather be in the situation that many professionals find themselves? No response to 1,000 resumes sent out?
We are extremely lucky to be in such a high demand field, where even in the worst recession in 60 years there is full employment for those with solid SQL Server experience.
September 29, 2011 at 12:16 pm
JamesMorrison (9/29/2011)
amy26 (9/29/2011)
I do have some progress on the job front though... I have one interview tomorrow that the lady says I would be "perfect" for. And it does sound exciting... its for a company that handles military data from Iraq and Afganistan to track and monitor US employees while they are overseas and keep them safe. Its one of these wierd jobs where I would work for the recruiter for a year and then after a year could go perm with the company or stay with the recruiter at either the same company or be placed elsewhere. I still find this working for recruiter thing a bit wierd.That is actually very common. Contract-to-hire is how many full-time jobs happen. 3-6 months on contract, then rollover to fulltime.
This is the longest its ever taken me to find a job, so its kind of annoying. I'm getting slammed with calls and emails about jobs but most of them are not for me or too far away. So, I hope I will get something soon. 🙂
Think about that for a minute. We have the highest unemployment since WW2 and you are slammed with calls and emails, most of them too far away.
That tells you how desperate some companies are. They have to reach out beyond their local area to try to lure people to interview. I live in the Seattle area and I constantly get calls asking my interest in moving. I think IT unemployment is something like 3%, which is basically full employment. Anyone wanting to work can find a job within a reasonable time period.
Would you rather be in the situation that many professionals find themselves? No response to 1,000 resumes sent out?
We are extremely lucky to be in such a high demand field, where even in the worst recession in 60 years there is full employment for those with solid SQL Server experience.
Well I didn't say they were companies reaching out past their local area for candiates... I said they are too far away "for me". They are still in the DC area and most of them aren't related to my field... its where they picked up a keyword in my resume and now send me a job posting for a Cognos Developer or something. I do feel lucky that I have options and never said I didn't. And honestly, there aren't a lot of SQL Server jobs in the DC area (full time non W-2 stuff). Most of the companies here are all on Oracle and I find it hard to find an actual SQL Server development position. Even at my current job I'm doing a lot of Oracle stuff and I don't want to. So, jobs are flying at me yes...but are they in my field and where I want to commute to? No...
September 29, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Hiring can follow weird patterns.
Last year, I was job hunting in August, and there was NOTHING in Tampa, but tons in Orlando. But December/January every year, Tampa IT hiring goes out the roof. Wasn't looking, but still had as many as five or six inquiries a day during the peak weeks, all for Tampa. Same as the prior 3 years.
Maybe DC has something odd going on like that. Not that anything strange or unusual ever happens in DC, but ...
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
September 29, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Hehe nah....DC is a completely normal and full functional place with no problems. 😀
September 29, 2011 at 1:07 pm
amy26 (9/29/2011)
And honestly, there aren't a lot of SQL Server jobs in the DC area (full time non W-2 stuff). Most of the companies here are all on Oracle and I find it hard to find an actual SQL Server development position. Even at my current job I'm doing a lot of Oracle stuff and I don't want to. So, jobs are flying at me yes...but are they in my field and where I want to commute to? No...
I guess that is an example of being where you live. I am in the Seattle/Redmond area.
It seems like everything around here is Microsoft based technology (go figure). Tons of SQL Server jobs.
Also, I consider government type of jobs to be stuck on somewhat older technology. More mainframes, older Oracle versions, etc.
Is that a fair judgement for me to make? or a misconception?
Many CIOs believe that Microsoft became viable for real mission critical databases when SQL Server 2005 came out.
There is much more of an installed base of Oracle systems out there. In newer systems you will find more SQL Server, but perhaps government agencies are slower to change than the private sector. Just my opinion, not sure if I am right or wrong in that analysis.
September 29, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Heya Amy,
Not sure if this will help you or not, but an article I wrote about job postings and how to deal with them is here, if you can live with a little self promotion: http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Career/72939/
To be honest though, you're always going to get left behind somewhere. I've been consulting for ~10 years now, and I'm always trying to play catchup. Mirrored snapshots and 2k8 are still outside of my career, though I do try to keep up to date. You keep up where you can when you can, and fill in the blanks as you go.
It's 2011, I've been at 5 positions since 2k8 came out, and I have *yet* to be at a company that has it in production. For years I've been trying to 'break into' Analysis services, but as soon as they see my coding they switch me off to other work. These things happen. Try not to look for a job that will give you a chance to stretch in all the directions at once, but ones that will stretch you in a particular area. Sometimes, it even works. 😉
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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September 29, 2011 at 1:15 pm
JamesMorrison (9/29/2011)
amy26 (9/29/2011)
And honestly, there aren't a lot of SQL Server jobs in the DC area (full time non W-2 stuff). Most of the companies here are all on Oracle and I find it hard to find an actual SQL Server development position. Even at my current job I'm doing a lot of Oracle stuff and I don't want to. So, jobs are flying at me yes...but are they in my field and where I want to commute to? No...I guess that is an example of being where you live. I am in the Seattle/Redmond area.
It seems like everything around here is Microsoft based technology (go figure). Tons of SQL Server jobs.
Also, I consider government type of jobs to be stuck on somewhat older technology. More mainframes, older Oracle versions, etc.
Is that a fair judgement for me to make? or a misconception?
Many CIOs believe that Microsoft became viable for real mission critical databases when SQL Server 2005 came out.
There is much more of an installed base of Oracle systems out there. In newer systems you will find more SQL Server, but perhaps government agencies are slower to change than the private sector. Just my opinion, not sure if I am right or wrong in that analysis.
Well, you are mostly correct I think... but some agencies are different than others. Certain agencies only use cutting edge stuff. The agency I work for is one in the dark ages...but slowly coming out. We just migrated from SQL 2000 to 2005 and they are currently going through an upgrade to get rid of their mainframe system and move to PeopleSoft financials. My agency actually wants everything to be on Oracle (which is why any new development we do is in Oracle) but the cost to move our datamart from SQL Server to Oracle is more than they can afford ...so they are letting us stay on SQL Server.
I have noticed when I looked at jobs in other places that SQL Server seems to be used a lot more out west than it is here. I am seeing a lot more SQL 2008 jobs here though... I really think Microsoft is in a much better place now to compete with Oracle. And frankly, I think its way better than Oracle... SQL 2000 not so much...but 2005/2008 is just a better tool IMO. I know there are die hard Oracle people out there but being that I am a developer in both Oracle and SQL Server, I can say that I prefer MS. My motto for Oracle is "data goes in, data don't come out!" 🙂 For me, working with data in SQL Server is so much more intuative and easier to make efficient. Course, my last name is Gates... so, I could be biased! 😀
September 29, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Evil Kraig F (9/29/2011)
Heya Amy,Not sure if this will help you or not, but an article I wrote about job postings and how to deal with them is here, if you can live with a little self promotion: http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Career/72939/
To be honest though, you're always going to get left behind somewhere. I've been consulting for ~10 years now, and I'm always trying to play catchup. Mirrored snapshots and 2k8 are still outside of my career, though I do try to keep up to date. You keep up where you can when you can, and fill in the blanks as you go.
It's 2011, I've been at 5 positions since 2k8 came out, and I have *yet* to be at a company that has it in production. For years I've been trying to 'break into' Analysis services, but as soon as they see my coding they switch me off to other work. These things happen. Try not to look for a job that will give you a chance to stretch in all the directions at once, but ones that will stretch you in a particular area. Sometimes, it even works. 😉
Thanks, I'll check it out... and yea, wise words. 😀 We'll see what happens... the one job I have an interview for tomorrow I might cancel... the benefits are terrible! They only get 5 holidays a year... seriously? And I will not be happy if I have to work for them for a year with awful benefits... I'm trying to get better benefits not worse ones! 😀
September 29, 2011 at 2:02 pm
amy26 (9/29/2011)
the one job I have an interview for tomorrow I might cancel... the benefits are terrible! They only get 5 holidays a year... seriously? And I will not be happy if I have to work for them for a year with awful benefits... I'm trying to get better benefits not worse ones! 😀
That is key during your job search. Don't take something marginal in a desperate rush to get out of your current job.
Keep looking and wait for something that fits what you really want.
Employers prefer to hire someone that is already working. So you hold all of the cards right now.
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