January 9, 2009 at 9:08 am
AndyD (1/9/2009)
The company is morphing their appearance purely to put over a good impression
I disagree. For me, there are only two reasons to wear clothing:
1. To make yourself comfortable in your environment. This goes beyond physical comfort (i.e, dress in layers when it's cold): some people only feel comfortable when they blend in with others; others only feel comfortable when they stand out. Your dress should reflect that -- and as the bowtie example shows, good dress codes allow for such expression.
2. To make those around you comfortable. This isn't being disingenuous or purely for the sake of good impressions; it's a courtesy. If you have to meet with people who are uncomfortable doing business with someone in jeans and a t-shirt (and you know it), it would be rude to do so.
I work in the back office at a bank. In general, employees at the branches are expected to wear dress shirts and ties, where here in the back office, we have a more relaxed dress code. But when I had to present something to the Board, I wore a dress shirt and tie, because I knew that's what they were comfortable with.
January 9, 2009 at 9:24 am
For the record, I didn't pick the shirt in the image. Well I did pick to wear it, but I didn't pick it for the image. The artist at Red Gate grabbed one of the podcasts and sucked out a frame and gussied it up.
The shirt is a SQL Server shirt from last year when Microsoft had some event. I think it was TechEd and the back has two dogs on it. I'll get an image of both sides and throw it up here.
A great debate and it's interesting to hear the comments. I think most people agree that you dress for the situation. Yet another "it depends" answer to a question.
Some people aren't bothered by dressing up, some enjoy it, I hate it. It's annoying to me and the once a year I wear a tie to take my daughter to a dance, I'm slightly annoyed the entire time. It just bothers me and when I had to do it at work, whether pulling cables under a desk, in a meeting, or typing, the dress interrupts my work. A jacket (suit or sport) is almost as bad.
Andy Leonard suggested that I got topless one day :), we'll see. Perhaps I'll "suit and tie it" one day and see if people listen more.
And Grant in a suit!?!?!!!
January 9, 2009 at 9:27 am
Wow...after 8 pages of responses on a very interesting topic, I'm surprised that only one respondent has mentioned personal hygene. I don't care if you wear a suit, a party outfit, t-shirts or dockers, if you haven't taken the time to shower, brush your teeth and comb your hair and TRY to look presentable in some fashion, then your body odor is going to be the only thing I'm concerned with.
First impressions are the most important. Knowing what type of environment you will be entering for a client meeting, team discussion, manager's offsite retreat or whatever it may be and having good personal hygene will make any outfit you wear secondary. Always know ahead of time (research is a good thing ...) where you "might" be working and dress accordingly.
January 9, 2009 at 9:28 am
Dress codes are just another way for the man to hold you down. 😛
I work for a database development company but do a lot of work at clients' offices (on-site consultant type stuff). At the company i've been most recently, they do business casual on normal days and real casual on fridays. The rules aren't heavily enforced though, since they're a call center (can you imagine trying to get hundreds of relatively low-paid phone reps to dress up when most of them don't like their jobs anyway?). From the start i decided not to bother. I wear what i want every day. The only concession i made was not wearing a hat while working in the office. I have to tell you, watching processions of polo shirts waltzing by while i code in my Razormaze (Boston-area death metal band) t-shirt is pretty fun. Lord have mercy on anyone who tries to put a tie on me without a 20% pay increase.
January 9, 2009 at 9:31 am
I like the t-shirt.
I've worked everywhere from a 'fun' airline where shorts were acceptable (okay encouraged) at corporate headquarters to a company where jeans were okay every day except when clients were onsite (when business casual was required) to companies where formal business attire was the rule. It always seems that the dress code contributes to the overall atmosphere at work, I guess because it seems to reflect the culture and image the company wants to convey.
I now work for a financial services company at our technology center. The dress code in our building is casual (jeans every day), but is more formal at our headquarters down the street. We are expected to dress a little nicer on days we have meetings at our other locations. I never have a problem with it because management believes it demonstrates respect for our clients and I'm on their dime. I'm just glad I don't have meetings often.
January 9, 2009 at 9:36 am
How to carry one's self in public is very tightly tied to place and time. I've worked in Japan for 11 years, Germany for 5, and the U.S. now for 11. I was raised in the U.S. All societies have very strict rules about what is appropriate, even the U.S., where it appears as if 'anything goes'. The U.S. in general values comfort, convenience, the spirit of youth, and 'not being bound by rules', or 'being free to do what I want'. Anyone who has kids will recognize that these sentiments are very close to the core beliefs of an adolescent.
However, there are many, many cultures where a person is not viewed as an adult unless they behave as one. Among the qualities we attribute to adulthood is the ability to set aside one's own ideas about what is correct, or one's own immediate comfort, for example, and follow more general rules. Not because the new rules are better, but rather simply because they are new rules that one is operating under. One example is wearing shoes that are not as comfortable as birkies, because that is what society expects in a particular setting.
If your position or company is flexible enough to allow you to wear whatever you want, great. If you find that occasionally (or perhaps always) you must wear something you would rather not, it is not a sign of moral weakness to do so. That is to say, I don't believe I am somehow not 'being true to myself' because I am wearing a tie. My wife, for example, is Argentinian, and loathes the tennis shoe-sweat pants aesthetic in the U.S. To her, it belongs in the gym, yet she finds her self often dressing down because to wear what she would most like would mean she sticks out too much. She always breathes a sigh of relief when we go to a more refined country, where she can dress and behave 'like an adult' (as she would say).
January 9, 2009 at 9:39 am
Barry G Freeman (1/9/2009)
My 2p worth.The image you present is important, sure, but only to the audience you're interacting with.
Also, it depends om what message you're trying to put forward to that audience.
As people have said, if you are working at home dialled-in to your office, work naked if that's comfortable. (As long as you don't have a web cam, of course!)
If you are presenting a technical subject to technical people, you might dress in jeans and T - "I'm a techie just like you"
And so on.
The age of company dress codes must be on the way out, really.
I wish that were true, but even small companies I have worked for continue to insist on dressing "professionally" when outsiders are expected to visit - and for some venues, that could be every day.
I will note, however, that I was advised I was overdressing on Fridays at my current job, where even the President will wear a casual shirt and jeans on Friday.
January 9, 2009 at 9:42 am
My most formal attire was when I started at the police department. Winter uniform was long sleeve dress shirt and tie, summer uniform was short sleeve dress shirt and no tie and you received a General Orders update when management decided the season changed. It was later loosened to Casual Friday, then a nice polo and slacks became acceptable for daily wear, you could get away with nice jeans frequently. But law enforcement frequently has a culture that feels they need to maintain a higher standard of dress, at least they did when I started there in '92.
So much depends on the environment. We were expected to wear a dress shirt and tie if we ever had a meeting with the public, which did not include other, non-police, City departments. We always assumed that if we had a scheduled meeting with the Chiefs or City Council, then suit and tie was required. If we had to go upstairs for an impromptu meeting or problem, then it was OK.
I enjoyed dressing nicely, but because of my neck size, I needed custom-made shirts to the tune of around $130 a pop in order to get a shirt that fit properly. Funny, there are guys with 17" necks who aren't built like linebackers. So dressing well is definitely expensive. Over the years I think I've worn a suit to work probably a half dozen times or less.
We're much more casual where I'm now at. I frequently wear a t-shirt, today it's the Science Fiction Hall of Fame shirt that I got while at PASS in November, covered by the Quest Software longsleeve that I got there as our computer room is kinda cool right now. You just can't go grubby: no holes or tears in your clothing and you're probably OK as long as you don't have grossly objectionable stuff printed on your shirt, and that opens a whole other kettle o' political correctness fish.
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
January 9, 2009 at 9:44 am
AndyD (1/9/2009)
I am surprised at several posts here which admit that they "dress-up" when they, or their boss, deem the situation requires it. This to me is disingenuous. Your presentation, including attire, do make impressions, and the impression given here is false.I know that most companies have some kind of dress code, and that employees are expected to follow it. Thus the attire of employees indicates something about the company (as opposed to the individual).
For example, Steve's T-Shirt wearing faux-pas (as the HR person would believe) does say something about Steve's company (and as Steve is the boss, it says something directly about him!). And given Steve's background, and his audience, his dress seems entirely appropriate.
What I object to is the idea that a company deliberately dresses differently when meeting with external clients. This, to me, is a sham. You are either comfortable with formal attire, and thus wear it every day, or you are not and should not wear it.
Andy
I don't think this is any more a sham than is dressing in business attire when you are interviewing for a job. You are saying, by your choice of clothes, that this is a true aspect of who I am. It doesn't mean you dress like that for every occasion - unlike the 1940's, you generally don't see men and women in business attire at a sporting event. Nor is it appropriate to wear your jeans and T-shirt to the opera.
January 9, 2009 at 9:51 am
I'm with you Steve, and with an additional habit:
I don't like people judging me by my attire; I want them to judge by the value I deliver. So, I purposely switch up the level of formality on a regular basis, even on Fridays. I really do not care for what anyone thinks is "fashionable".
I agree, the clothes should be neat and not ripped up or worn... never thought much of those fashion statements. But I will wear a tie or bow just as well as Bermuda-length jeans and a clean T-shirt.
On the other hand, personal hygiene is an absolute. No one likes to come near bad breath or regularly odiferous ones. But I still do not let myself judge the value of the work performed by that person by any personal grooming habits, unless such habits are detrimental to those around them, thereby negating the value through lost value overall.
Techies in general are usually allowed to be geeks and dress casual or with flair, or even with flamboyancy, as long as it is generally clean.
January 9, 2009 at 9:54 am
Neat, clean, and comfortable, this is my criteria for my attire. However when I have to visit client sites (very rarely) I dress business casual. My work ethic and attitude are the basis of what I should be measured, not what I wear.
There is also the rule of thumb to dress for the work you doing, so perhaps Steve was taking a break from the sheetrock work in the room he was in - HR didn't see that detail of the half wall "rocked in" 😉
January 9, 2009 at 9:55 am
Grant Fritchey (1/9/2009)
I've climbed under desks and pulled cable in a suit and tie and I've worked in shorts & sandals at a dot com. In neither situation was I more or less productive, but I was one hell of a lot more comfortable at the dot com.Appearance only matters initially. Once a track record is established, appearance shouldn't matter that much.
I work now in an environment that's business casual, but they're pretty serious about it. We had an outage once that required me to work until about 4AM. I ran home & came back to work to continue the clean up, no sleep, just a shower. I changed clothes, but wasn't exactly clear headed (shock) and showed up in jeans. No one sent me home or said anything to me that day (damn good thing too) but later in the week I got pulled aside and talked to about my dress code adherence. Sucks, but what are you going to do?
That really sucks that they couldn't recognize the effort you put in for the team without dinging you for jeans.
Personally, I don't see why jeans get such a bad rap. Most of my jeans are more expensive than my dress slacks.
Your comment about getting under desks in a suit and tie bring up another point for women: I was working as a contract employee at one company and wanted to make a good impression, so I typically wore skirted suits and pantyhose. Imagine how much fun it was one day when they told me they were moving me to another cube - and I was expected to disconnect and move my computer myself!
I challenge you men to imagine yourselves wearing pantyhose and skirt (okay, change that to kilt if if you can't go all the way to skirt), and rolling around on the floor disconnecting cables!
January 9, 2009 at 9:59 am
jsanborn (1/9/2009)
In general, as a woman in IT, I've always noticed that when not doing presentations on a client site, people tend to assume you're the admin assistant if you dress up too much. I currently work in a place that is "business casual", ie. golf shirts and khakis for men, though the executives tend to wear dress shirts (no ties). We work very near the manufacturing environment. It is not uncommon to have to walk through part of the factory or the warehouse to get to a conference room, so wearing girly shoes and suits are not particularly practical, so I don't wear them. I have found that some people behave more professionally when they are more dressed up, but being practical for the situation is WAY more important.-Jennifer Sanborn
I've been caught wearing the wrong shoes for the situation and I know what you mean. I was going with my boss on a marketing trip to another company, so we were both dressed up. This became a real problem when the host decided to give us a tour of the labs and machine shops, and I found myself falling far behind them, trying to keep up in my heels as they strode off in their flat-soled, comfortable leather shoes.
January 9, 2009 at 10:02 am
jpowers (1/9/2009)
I challenge you men to imagine yourselves wearing pantyhose and skirt (okay, change that to kilt if if you can't go all the way to skirt), and rolling around on the floor disconnecting cables!
Challenge accepted!
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aww this is terrible. I've got bunching and stretching going on, and i feel totally exposed.
i think i'd rather imagine myself getting a really good massage...there we go.
January 9, 2009 at 10:05 am
I am probably the HR guy that Steve mentioned in his article. I could write a book on this subject, but I will try to keep it short. I urge you to heed my advice.
1. Everyone has an opinion on workplace attire and almost everyone thinks his or her opinion is right. Virtually all of you are wrong. Non-verbal communication, including what you wear, sends a more powerful message than anything you do or say. That is a simple scientific fact, and there is no need to argue.
2. Absent any other guidance, all technical professionals should shoot for a wardrobe appearance as close to this as they can possibly get: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/tech/images/080625gates_retiring.jpg. Once again, this is simply a fact, and there is no need to argue.
3. Crappy, shabby, sloppy clothing is completely inappropriate in any professional environment at any time. The main reason: it is disrespectful to your co-workers, because it communicates to them that you don't care what they think of you. This rule is especially true for supervisors and anyone in a customer-facing role.
4. I was once interviewed for a job at a company that had an "anything goes" dress policy. The hiring manager wore an underwear t-shirt and a pair of filthy rubber sandals. I took that as a complete insult and told him so. Maybe he knows what he is doing, but my business mind told me that he was an idiot. I assure you that I am far from alone in this thinking.
5. Years ago, a researcher named Malloy published a book on this topic, and his wardrobe recommendations were based on scientifically conducted opinion polls. Despite this fact, many people thought their own opinions were better than his research. Once again, I warn any professional to avoid this urge and seek out real data on this topic.
6. Malloy also published a book for professional women. (I do not recommend any of his books because the research is years out of date, but they are still relevant for their overall approach to workplace wardrobe.) Women in technical jobs face significant gender discrimination in any workplace setting. They frequently encounter situations where their technical expertise is not accepted as readily as that of comparable men. In a nutshell: it is always a mistake to dress like men. You should shoot for a smart, professional look that incorporates feminine jewelry and colors, such as royal purple, that men would not wear. Even better, seek out a relevant book on this subject and do everything it says.
Have a great day!
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