January 13, 2009 at 7:27 am
gcopeland (1/13/2009)
majorbloodnock (1/13/2009)
Given your stated opinions earlier in this thread, I think Steve can fairly safely take that as a compliment. 😉Given "my stated opinions"...honestly...Is that the best you can come up with? *I* do not have an Internet blog. I am not a principal in an Internet company.
How about this: Steve's online t-shirt picture makes him look like someone who doen't understand anything about business. If he is trying to help his company sell software product, then shouldn't he wear something that makes him look more professional?
Just saying.
Have a great day.
What you are "just saying" is provably wrong. Steve's business is arguably the most successful in its industry (SQL web pages). It's marketing, which includes Steve in a t-shirt on the Editorials page, is quite obviously incredibly successful.
You have repeatedly stated a hypothesis that dressing well is necessary for the success of semi- or under-skilled people. I would like to see your proof of this. Link, or otherwise provide the studies, data and statistics on this. Anything less than that is just "everybody knows", which doesn't prove a thing.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
January 13, 2009 at 8:51 am
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.
Hmmmmm, I think I might redo the image, probably with some SSC shirts, some other t-shirts, etc. Maybe even a Red Gate shirt!
January 13, 2009 at 8:54 am
As was said many pages ago, Steve, why not resort to the chicken suit?
(OK, I'm not really being serious; it was something of a tongue in beak question.....)
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
January 13, 2009 at 9:27 am
majorbloodnock (1/13/2009)
gcopeland (1/13/2009)
majorbloodnock (1/13/2009)
Given your stated opinions earlier in this thread, I think Steve can fairly safely take that as a compliment. 😉Given "my stated opinions"...Is that the best you can come up with? No scientifically reasoned means for justifying his childish garb? How about this: Steve's t-shrt makes him look like someone who doen't understand anything about business. If he wants to help sell software product, he will wear something that looks more professional?
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I've posted several times with specific points, and this is the only one you've been inclined to pick up on. No matter.
The "customers" of this site are its members, active or otherwise. Approximately 1 million of them. Of the active ones inclined to display any opinion on Steve's attire, you stand almost alone in your criticism of it. So Steve, with all the facets of his image, has attracted a huge number of customers (i.e. he's been very successful) and the vast majority of stated opinion from those customers states categorically that they're very happy with what the site provides and with Steve as the provider (i.e. product, brand and image are accurately targetted and appropriate to them). Yet you (a small minority) persist in arguing with the other customers that they're all wrong to have voted with their feet in the way they have. I reiterate what I've posted before - professional doesn't mean looking formal; professional means looking appropriate and getting results. Steve is, by demonstration, professional.
...
I agree with your statements above. I haven't followed this thread past the first day, but seeing what appears to be the escalating hostility in the responses, I think it is safe to say that it's more important to discuss the issue professionally than it was for anyone to notice Steve's T-shirt in the first place.
Another thing not mentioned directly about Steve in the above statements is that he shows great humility, which some of the responses (like the one about "childish garb" above) lack. Being humble (which is not the same as being a doormat) goes a long way in a person's career, and from what I have read of Steve's editorials and comments, that makes his site a lot more user friendly and accessible. It also makes me more likely to trust what he says, because he is not rigidly stating it as gospel.
I think the points made by gcopeland would be more effective if they were not couched in terms of being absolutely, scientifically correct. It comes across as arrogant, which, ironically, detracts from the commenter's image.
By the same token, those who disagree with gcopeland are quick to make fun of HR people, which also is beside the point. Every profession has its stereotypes, but just because it may happen to be true that in Steve's specific case "dressing up" does not affect his success, it doesn't mean that workplace dress is not relevant. In fact, as others have said, even though dress may usually be nothing more than a foot in the door - and as such, not a perfect indicator of whether a person is good at their job or is "professional" - most of us are not lucky enough to have 1 million people who don't care what we wear in a photo.
It cuts both ways, as we have seen - some people are just as biased against people who dress up too much as others are against people who don't dress up enough. I couldn't get away with wearing a T-shirt to work, but because I don't mind, and sometimes enjoy, wearing a shirt and tie, that works for me. It may not work for others, and whether or not that impacts their job or reputation depends on their workplace culture. For every scientific study advocating dressing up, I'm sure there is a department somewhere that has people who are allowed flexibility in dress because they are considered valuable employees for reasons other than their appearance (assuming they observe good hygiene, as others have pointed out).
Perhaps a reasonable compromise is for those with HR advice not to insist so much that it is scientifically proven that one always has to dress up in order to be perceived as professional, while those who oppose dressing up can agree that not everyone who dresses up is a pointy-haired stuffed shirt. You actually have to have a meaningful interaction or two with someone to find out the important stuff about how they do their jobs....
webrunner
-------------------
A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html
January 13, 2009 at 9:43 am
Steve Jones - Editor (1/13/2009)
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.Hmmmmm, I think I might redo the image, probably with some SSC shirts, some other t-shirts, etc. Maybe even a Red Gate shirt!
I like the SQL Server 2005 t-shirt, Steve, but it's probably time for an update.
😉
Something that's not "wife-beater white" might spruce up your image. Would you wear a black Gears of War 2 shirt if I sent it to you? I could always riffle the swag closet for some retro SQL turtle neck if you want...
:w00t:
[Would the apologists for HR people please pipe down? Pretty please? HR people are next in line after politicians and attorneys. @$&#ing bureaucrats. :D]
January 13, 2009 at 9:45 am
Steve Jones - Editor (1/13/2009)
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.
Allow me to unconfuse you - we don't CARE about the shirt. We like YOU! :w00t:
(You do a great job, IMHO)
Steph Brown
January 13, 2009 at 9:50 am
Stephanie J Brown (1/13/2009)
Steve Jones - Editor (1/13/2009)
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.Allow me to unconfuse you - we don't CARE about the shirt. We like YOU! :w00t:
(You do a great job, IMHO)
Ditto for me.
-------------------
A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html
January 13, 2009 at 9:54 am
David Reed (1/13/2009)
Steve Jones - Editor (1/13/2009)
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.Hmmmmm, I think I might redo the image, probably with some SSC shirts, some other t-shirts, etc. Maybe even a Red Gate shirt!
I like the SQL Server 2005 t-shirt, Steve, but it's probably time for an update.
😉
Something that's not "wife-beater white" might spruce up your image. Would you wear a black Gears of War 2 shirt if I sent it to you? I could always riffle the swag closet for some retro SQL turtle neck if you want...
:w00t:
[Would the apologists for HR people please pipe down? Pretty please? HR people are next in line after politicians and attorneys. @$&#ing bureaucrats. :D]
I don't think Steve can pull off the "white-beater" look. Just not right for him.
I also have to agree wth Steph and Webrunner, we like you the way you are.
This is the most professional SQL Server centered site I have used. You have attracted and retained an awesome group of individuals to this site. I have learned more from people on this site than I think I would have on my own.
January 13, 2009 at 9:58 am
Stephanie J Brown (1/13/2009)
Steve Jones - Editor (1/13/2009)
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.Allow me to unconfuse you - we don't CARE about the shirt. We like YOU! :w00t:
(You do a great job, IMHO)
Ditto.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
January 13, 2009 at 9:59 am
gcopeland (1/13/2009)
And by the way, Steve needs to change his t-shrit in his online picture! He looks like a chump!
The statements one makes nearly always say more about the speaker than the spoken to or the spoken about.
To everyone, thanks for the contributions.
(Deleted flames. Just didn't sound the way it was intended.)
January 13, 2009 at 10:11 am
Steve Jones - Editor (1/13/2009)
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.
Personally, I think you projected an image that is inviting to novice and expert alike. I would venture to bet that 99% of your customer base would agree.
Hmmmmm, I think I might redo the image, probably with some SSC shirts, some other t-shirts, etc. Maybe even a Red Gate shirt!
No need to, but I say, do what you think is best... it's your call, and I don't think the masses will herd off in another direction whether you do nor do not. In the end, the image is supported by all who join in, and the contributions of all both small and great. You may be the organizer, but have well fostered an environment of group participation.
Well done!
(edited typos)
January 13, 2009 at 10:37 am
like a lot of youse guys (and Lynn, and Gail, etc)
at the end of the day this is a useful and helpful site and I have learned so much from your collective expertise (as well as a few terms in Hindi)
if Steve wants to wear a T-shirt heck, it's his perogative
January 13, 2009 at 10:47 am
Steve Jones - Editor (1/13/2009)
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.Hmmmmm, I think I might redo the image, probably with some SSC shirts, some other t-shirts, etc. Maybe even a Red Gate shirt!
Whatever happened to those Hawaiian shirts you were sporting a year or so ago?
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 13, 2009 at 10:52 am
Steve Jones - Editor (1/13/2009)
OK, I'm really confused now. I was going to change the picture to a new shirt, but most people like the shirt.Hmmmmm, I think I might redo the image, probably with some SSC shirts, some other t-shirts, etc. Maybe even a Red Gate shirt!
Regardless of which shirt you pick, I think I speak for everyone (or maybe just myself) when I say, a kilt is a must have in this new picture.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
January 13, 2009 at 11:48 am
Lend me a kilt and I'll put one one!!
Thanks for the note and I do appreciate the kind words. I'd wear the Gears of War shirt, but my middle son has appropriated it. Actually he's growing so much I noticed he took my BI Power Hour shirt from Tech Ed as well.
Hawaiian shirts are on Fridays, need to get one of those for the newsletter picture.
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