January 9, 2009 at 2:33 am
January 9, 2009 at 2:37 am
Yeah, I'm still trying to work out why an HR Manager would be looking at this site anyway? Anyway, although I have a good stock of vitriol for their idiotic nit picking I'll leave that aside.
As far as your editorials are concerned I don't see the need to create barriers, so dressing inoffensively is surely the order of the day. This site is surely a community for people who actually do real stuff, what you wear is completely immaterial (sorry), if I'm listening to a guy in a suit I immediately question everything they say as I assume they're trying to sell me something, thus I think you wearing one would make you less effective.
Me, I'm "smart casual" whatever that means, although I actually prefer to wear suits, you don't have to think about it - buy a couple then forget about it until you need a new one. Also since going "smart casual" I find I don't bother getting changed when I get home, which is a shame because taking your suit off is almost like taking work off, if that makes any sense.
January 9, 2009 at 2:46 am
I understand what AndyD says above, about dressing up for particular situations being a sham, but the point is that some clients expect it. And if you don’t meet those expectations, however shallow you may think they are, you’re risking losing the client. And your job.
I know I’d rather wear the occasional suit & tie and my employer staying in business, then me getting my P45 and visiting the job centre.
January 9, 2009 at 2:55 am
Steve's T-Shirt logo = No More Underdog 😀
Hiding under a desk from SSIS Implemenation Work :crazy:
January 9, 2009 at 2:58 am
AndyD (1/9/2009)
I am surprised at several posts here which admit that they "dress-up" when they, or their boss, deem the situation requires it. This to me is disingenuous. Your presentation, including attire, do make impressions, and the impression given here is false.
I understand what you're saying, Andy, but in this case I disagree. The impression I would be trying to put across is that I'm aware enough to notice when change is appropriate, adaptable enough to make those changes and respectful enough to believe those being "impressed" are worth the effort.
Everyone has to break wind. When I'm on my own, I find it more comfortable to simply fart when I need to. Is it disingenuous of me to modify this behaviour when I'm in company? Certainly the impression could be misinterpreted as suggesting I'm never flatulent....
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
January 9, 2009 at 3:26 am
Well, ladies never suffer flatulence, at least in public.... OK, point taken.
And a nice bit of management-speak too. Obviously everyone modifies their behaviour depending on circumstance, surroundings, situation, etc. If you don't you are labelled an eccentric/oddball. I still don't like it here. The company is morphing their appearance purely to put over a good impression, as opposed to leading from the front, taking a stance, being happy with who/what they really are. I'm probably asking way too much 🙁
January 9, 2009 at 3:37 am
AndyD (1/9/2009)
Well, ladies never suffer flatulence, at least in public.... OK, point taken.And a nice bit of management-speak too. Obviously everyone modifies their behaviour depending on circumstance, surroundings, situation, etc. If you don't you are labelled an eccentric/oddball. I still don't like it here. The company is morphing their appearance purely to put over a good impression, as opposed to leading from the front, taking a stance, being happy with who/what they really are. I'm probably asking way too much 🙁
He, he. Thanks.
What you're describing, though, is definitely a perennial problem. In a given situation, is someone telling you what they believe to be appropriate or are they telling you what they think you want to hear? And it's as true with the image one puts across as with the words one speaks, and it's always going to be difficult to spot accomplished charlatans. However, as long as I know my motives to be honourable, I can sleep at night and I believe my honesty of purpose will generally come across. I think that's the best I can hope for.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
January 9, 2009 at 3:44 am
I still don't like it here. The company is morphing their appearance purely to put over a good impression
If you don't know what to do next polish your shoes and comb your hair.....
January 9, 2009 at 3:46 am
majorbloodnock (1/9/2009)... to spot accomplished charlatans...
Read Phil Factor on simple talk. 🙂
Hiding under a desk from SSIS Implemenation Work :crazy:
January 9, 2009 at 4:17 am
I used to work fully 'suited and booted' but lately have morphed to not bothering wearing a tie as it was getting uncomfortable, and no-one seems to be bothered, nor has my work suffered.
I still wear a suit though for one simple reason - I can't face going shopping for enough smart casual clothes to get me through the week, and it makes for an easy decision on what to wear in the morning! OK, thats two simple reasons.
I would expect a consultant coming to us for the first time to turn up looking smart though, it would be a sign of respect to us and image and first impressions do count. BUT having said that I would not turn them away (I don't think, hasn't happened yet), and if they turned out to be good at what they do, it would not be a problem.
Steve, I would tell that HR person to get over themselves.
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January 9, 2009 at 4:19 am
Very interesting topic!
I've worked in companies where Jeans and T-Shirts are the dress to companies where suits are required.
It sucks, but you tend to get more respect when you're dressed to the part. Consulting companies here and there still require it, and I guess when companies are paying the higher rates, they expect a certain image....
That said, my normal attire now is jeans and a t-shirt, and I couldn't be happier!
January 9, 2009 at 4:32 am
Hi Steve
I disagree with you that it is perhaps immature to want to feel comfortable while working instead of being bound up in clothes, especially in the oppressive heat we are currently experiencing in South Africa. To my mind, a strict formal dress code is just another form of mind(less) control that management try exercise over employees so that they feel more secure we will do what they say.
The last time I had to conform to a formal dress code was at school but I would hope we would be sufficiently mature now, as employees, to be able to dress casually/comfortably while still looking presentable. But somehow, most managements don't seem to be able to give us credit for that, even though they entrust us with their precious information and systems on a daily basis. Doesn't make much sense to me....
January 9, 2009 at 4:36 am
I'm an IT Consultant and image matters a lot. I'm a hard rock fan so I've got some metal band clothes, but to wear them to an interview or to most companies would not put me in a favourable position.
January 9, 2009 at 5:07 am
Image does matter. And while in todays business world a (uniform) suit and tie is not a necessary requirement, certain clothes do present a careless image. T-shirts are one of those kinds of clothes. It is true it has no bearing on actual work ethic, but for better or worse it still makes such a statement. There is a middle-ground. "Business casual" such as Dockers and a button-down shirt (almost any kind will do) or even a polo shirt will present a much more "professional" work ethic image. I know it shouldn't be this way, but that's just the way it is. Maybe going against the grain will eventually change that, but it will take a lot of people doing it for a long time. Do you really want/need to be one of those people?
January 9, 2009 at 5:21 am
Great points. One missed though. I prefer casual attire simply because I'm a cheap SOB. For me to have a formal wardrobe, I'd have to spend a fortune. The tailored shirts, jackets and pants would kill me. I simply cant buy clothes off the rack, unless I go to the specialty stores. And there's the rub, they know they've got me, and the prices are much higher.
Relating to management's desire for control, I completely agree. I've worked as a consultant and had to dress the part. I'm now a fte with a financial company that adheres to the "smart casual" mode. My only other fte job was with an electronic marketing company and that was much less formal. Didn't make a difference, IMHO.
Actually, I think my coworkers and supervisors actually understood and appreciated my work more then.
And yes, when clients come here, we're expected to dress up (or, for that matter, when the big guys from Switzerland come).
A great point was made in reference to writing. I'm not considered PC, and as such, I tend to get into trouble dealing with some of my coworkers. So, I tend to do more of my communication via email so I can avoid situations were I either say something I shouldn't, or I intimidate the person.
Knowing this, writing, grammar, and cohesive, concise communication is critical. A poorly spelt email can easily distract from the communication. Or at the least, give the impression that you don't care enough to spell check, proof read, etc.
(Obviously, this post is full of grammatical errors. My apologies.)
Honor Super Omnia-
Jason Miller
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