I'm sick of poor third-party software performance

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I'm sick of poor third-party software performance

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Gail Shaw SSC Guru Points: 1004504 More actions · Answer 1

Jeff Moden (12/13/2007)
Jeff, may I send that to my boss?
Sure... in fact, I'm honored :blush:.

Replied via PM. I don't want to hog this thread any more than I have

Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability

We walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass

WILLIAM MITCHELL SSChampion Points: 13766 More actions · Answer 2

Unfortunately, 3rd-party apps will only get worse, and MS has to share the blame. Check out this article "SQL Server '08 Adds Dev Perks" from the December 1, 2007 issue of Redmond Developer News:

The article relates a conversation with Francois Ajenstat, director of SQL Server project management (emphasis added):

"Ajenstat says Microsoft will ship updated bits to ensure that the ADO.NET Entity Framework, which should be complete with this database, will be synchronized in Visual Studio 2008. Microsoft last year pulled the framework from Visual Studio and made the database the delivery vehicle instead, sparking some concern.

"A successful implementation of this framework would enable developers to program using objects rather than lines of code. Developers don't necessarily know how the data in the store is structured or how the tables were built. Now they won't need to, Ajenstat says."

So according to MS, the app devs don't need to know anything about the database.:sick:

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004324 More actions · Answer 3

...the app devs don't need to know anything about the database.

Heh... from where I sit, most of them never did, so no real change. 😉

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Gail Shaw SSC Guru Points: 1004504 More actions · Answer 4

WILLIAM MITCHELL (12/15/2007)
So according to MS, the app devs don't need to know anything about the database.:sick:

Personally, I'd rather they didn't, and asked people who do to write them the DB objects they need. In my experience, it's the people who know a little about databases that are the most dangerous. (Heard from a senior C# developer: "You have to put the NOT NULL check first in the where clause" :ermm: )

The article's talking about LINQ and Entity Framework. I've looked into them a bit from the developer side. If they're implemented properly, they won't cause problems. The big issue I see is that all the examples that MS have published, show it been implemented the 'wrong' way.

Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability

We walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass

Ian Crandell SSCommitted Points: 1603 More actions · Answer 5

Matt Miller (12/13/2007)
....Now there's a lesson in diplomacy if I've ever had one......:unsure:

Not to mention a nice lesson in ethics.

It is always nice to be reminded that whatever problem we have with management or anything beyond what we work on, someone else has been through the same thing.

As Jeff said:

No, no... the rant is understood and appreciated.

I would add expected. I think if we can't vent our frustrations to someone that knows where we are coming from, we would explode.

Ian.

"If you are going through hell, keep going."
-- Winston Churchill

Matt Miller (4) SSC Guru Points: 124210 More actions · Answer 6

GilaMonster (12/16/2007)
Personally, I'd rather they didn't, and asked people who do to write them the DB objects they need. In my experience, it's the people who know a little about databases that are the most dangerous. (Heard from a senior C# developer: "You have to put the NOT NULL check first in the where clause" :ermm: )

Well - true. But I still think there's room in the industry and a desparate need for the Data Developer title. In other words - not the person necessarily making stuff pretty, or playing so low in the OS that they dream in assembler, but the one with experience and knowledge on both sides of the fence to come up with, build and if need be, manage data (from the model through the UI through the reports). I was pleasantly surprised a few years back to see MS trot out an actual certification specifically for these folks with most of its emphasis on the SQL side, and not the other side.

It's an important gap to fill in the we/they roles we tend to encounter these days. Perhaps not the ultimate guru, but competent and certainly able to manage most data-related challenges.

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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004324 More actions · Answer 7

I was pleasantly surprised a few years back to see MS trot out an actual certification specifically for these folks with most of its emphasis on the SQL side, and not the other side.

Matt, do you have a URL for that particular one? I've got a couple of folks who might like to take that one on. Thanks.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Matt Miller (4) SSC Guru Points: 124210 More actions · Answer 8

I was referring to the Data Developer track specifically, but there are several strains that might be of use as well (like the BI developer). From what I can tell, the MCITP-DBA and MCITP-DD seem to parallel fairly closely - 441 (Data Dev) is fairly close in content to 443 (DBA), and 442 (DD) to 444 (DBA).

MCITP certifications

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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004324 More actions · Answer 9

Perfect... thanks, Matt.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)