October 12, 2007 at 8:17 am
See attachment... 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 12, 2007 at 8:24 am
October 12, 2007 at 8:42 am
Hi Adrian, watch that Engineer stuff, I are one.:D I can understand that, you are right. She did ask. I am just suggesting we meter the response. Tough love is good sometimes too. But a book! Is that all there is, can we not sympathize, discuss our similar experiences, listen, expound on our resolutions. I would just like to offer more than the popular thought of the day. Did George Washington read a book after losing a battle, or Lincoln before signing the Emancipation Proclamation. It had to be their convictions that carried them through. They were leaders. I believe I am more than what I do, my work and try to maintain a seperation of the time I am paid for and my private time. I do get calls at all hours and weekends as anyone in this industry, but don't allow anyone to impose on my private time to be drunk and stupid or entertain. If there is a serious, company wide event, outside of work, I may participate, but expect my right not to, to be respected as well. Also, I respect the family, culture, beliefs of others around me and don't impose a requirement to "go out", especially from a lady.
October 12, 2007 at 8:55 am
NoYoBidnez, my apologies for the "book" suggestion in that the written word has always been my primary source of information; I was brought up with the "if you don't know it, go look it up" philosophy.
I wouldn't be too bothered about Consultants becoming Masters of the Universe either! :hehe:
October 12, 2007 at 9:07 am
nunYoBidnez (10/12/2007)
Hi Adrian, watch that Engineer stuff, I are one.:D I can understand that, you are right. She did ask. I am just suggesting we meter the response. Tough love is good sometimes too. But a book! Is that all there is, can we not sympathize, discuss our similar experiences, listen, expound on our resolutions. I would just like to offer more than the popular thought of the day. Did George Washington read a book after losing a battle, or Lincoln before signing the Emancipation Proclamation. It had to be their convictions that carried them through. They were leaders.
If you go back and read Loner's original post, she is asking for help. What better way to help someone than to teach them to help themselves? Yes, books. Remember, you too recommended one. I can tell you one thing; she is not going to print this thread out and carry it with her to read whenever she needs a hug. Books build character and empower you to change. After the Revolutionary was over, George Washington was standing on a hill overlooking one of the battle sites (Valley Forge I think) and he told the others with him that, (this is a John Rowan paraphrase) "It is finished, if the people are not totally free and happy, it is of their own doing." We have the freedom here in America to choose to be happy. It’s hard to do that when you don’t take personal responsibility for your own life. Blaming everything on your circumstances is not happiness and freedom. If you are constantly at the whim of your circumstances, you are a slave to things beyond your control. And by the way, GW and AL may not have read at the exact moments you’ve suggested, but I can tell you that they spend a significant amount of time reading. Men (and women) of character read, period. Have you ever known a good leader who was not constantly working on themselves?
October 12, 2007 at 9:18 am
Adrian Nichols (10/12/2007)
NoYoBidnez, my apologies for the "book" suggestion in that the written word has always been my primary source of information; I was brought up with the "if you don't know it, go look it up" philosophy.I wouldn't be too bothered about Consultants becoming Masters of the Universe either! :hehe:
As an engineer I think one should be resourceful and look things up as well. But most are for a snapshot in time. Is a book on Windows 3.1 of much use today? The same for the popular diet, exercise, self help, philosophy, ad nauseum. There were once books describing the world as flat. The Little Prince is a book to enjoy, can anyone tell me they really enjoy reading Sales books.
October 14, 2007 at 10:19 am
Popularity != usefullness
One doesn't imply or exclude the other. Books, seminars, in person conversations, etc. None of these is necessarily out of date because it's not popular.
October 15, 2007 at 6:35 am
Steve Jones - Editor (10/14/2007)
Popularity != usefullnessOne doesn't imply or exclude the other. Books, seminars, in person conversations, etc. None of these is necessarily out of date because it's not popular.
Good morning Steve, I'm not quite sure I understand what point you are trying to make, except stradle the fence. I can agree that all forms of communications offered with the best intentions and for edification, improve our lives, even if it isn't helpful. My criticism was to the suggestion to read books on the popular theme, that you control the world, Joel Osteen kinda mentality. If any of that was true, everyone would rule the world ( sweeping generalization ). The power of positive thinking is to lose sense of compassion, it works fine while everything is going well. But when things turn it is of no use. Case in point, the concentartion camps in Germany, who had the positive attitudes? Or the birth of this nation? 9/11? It was their belief and commitment, even unto death. In a few years this will be a comedy sketch on SNL, "just think positive". We are controlled by circumstances, it doesn't matter what you think in these situations. Iron bars do not a prison make! Possibly, it is just a difference of fact or fiction.
October 15, 2007 at 6:58 am
If you go back and read Loner's original post, she is asking for help. What better way to help someone than to teach them to help themselves? Yes, books. Remember, you too recommended one. I can tell you one thing; she is not going to print this thread out and carry it with her to read whenever she needs a hug. Books build character and empower you to change. After the Revolutionary was over, George Washington was standing on a hill overlooking one of the battle sites (Valley Forge I think) and he told the others with him that, (this is a John Rowan paraphrase) "It is finished, if the people are not totally free and happy, it is of their own doing." We have the freedom here in America to choose to be happy. It’s hard to do that when you don’t take personal responsibility for your own life. Blaming everything on your circumstances is not happiness and freedom. If you are constantly at the whim of your circumstances, you are a slave to things beyond your control. And by the way, GW and AL may not have read at the exact moments you’ve suggested, but I can tell you that they spend a significant amount of time reading. Men (and women) of character read, period. Have you ever known a good leader who was not constantly working on themselves?
[/quote]
Hi John, it is difficult to contradict what you say and I think you can see I agree with much of it. I hope she does print it out and keep it with her, this thread does show that there are a lot of caring people, it may be the hug she needs now and then. But Books Build Character??? Maybe in a movie, but in real life. My opinion, it is a combination of our innate traits and environment. All the people we have met, experiences we have and to a small degree the books we have read ( school, college etc ) I can apply engineering principles to a problem, but it is my creativity that actually produces the solution. There are countless situations where your attitude has no bearing or influence. Can you honestly say you can choose to be happy in any situation? What do you think will be popular if we have a Depression, a prolonged war in Iraq, Iran? Can we all just decide to be happy about it?
October 15, 2007 at 7:56 am
I think books are great and you can learn, but you seemed to be implying that self-help or sales books don't help or aren't worth it. My point was that books don't necessarily go out of date. Some do, like those on configuring Windows 3.1, but some don't. The Art of Programming or even a 20 year old book on C isn't necessarily out of date.
I think that anyone needing help on changing their life may need a few different ideas and suggestions. Using some sort of book or tape to motivate you isn't a bad idea. Printing our a portion of this thread and keeping it in your wallet/purse isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've seen people that kept a newspaper clipping around. This might be the 21st century equivalent.
I tend to agree with you that it's mostly our experiences, but I have seen some people heavily motivated by books. It's an individual thing.
Most of us aren't meant for greatness. Most of us don't handle change well and it's hard for us to move away from habits we've built over time. So it's smaller, incremental changes, and constant reinforcement that is needed. IMHO, I think that the advice to just change won't work. A constant, you can do better, some hand holding, is needed.
Those that make major changes in their lives, conquering addiction or something similar, do so with constant reinforcement and encouragement. I can't save everyone, but I can try to help a few and try to help them to get where they want to be. Positive thinking helps, but we're human. We need some encouragement and support from others.
I'd argue that those in the concentration camps had the highest level of positive thinking. The will to survive and endure.
October 15, 2007 at 10:24 am
Yes, that is my position. Those kinds of books can be very dangerous in these situations, they can place people in a much lower mental state. Counseling and mental health is a very important field, since it must necessarily be an individual endeavor, books are usually of little use. They may speak to something in general, but are usually frustrating to find anything that is useful in the immediate timeframe. That is why something off the subject can be of much greater assistance, a little solace for the mind.
You use will and thought as synonyms, which I can't agree with. My will to endure often has little to do with what I am thinking or thought. Most of the time my will to do something is purely a reaction, no thought at all. But to agree in a sense, I can put my thoughts into action.
The strongest thing I can agree with you on is reinforcement and encouragement, which comes from people, even if in book form.:P
Steve Jones - Editor (10/15/2007)
I think books are great and you can learn, but you seemed to be implying that self-help or sales books don't help or aren't worth it. My point was that books don't necessarily go out of date. Some do, like those on configuring Windows 3.1, but some don't. The Art of Programming or even a 20 year old book on C isn't necessarily out of date.I think that anyone needing help on changing their life may need a few different ideas and suggestions. Using some sort of book or tape to motivate you isn't a bad idea. Printing our a portion of this thread and keeping it in your wallet/purse isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've seen people that kept a newspaper clipping around. This might be the 21st century equivalent.
I tend to agree with you that it's mostly our experiences, but I have seen some people heavily motivated by books. It's an individual thing.
Most of us aren't meant for greatness. Most of us don't handle change well and it's hard for us to move away from habits we've built over time. So it's smaller, incremental changes, and constant reinforcement that is needed. IMHO, I think that the advice to just change won't work. A constant, you can do better, some hand holding, is needed.
Those that make major changes in their lives, conquering addiction or something similar, do so with constant reinforcement and encouragement. I can't save everyone, but I can try to help a few and try to help them to get where they want to be. Positive thinking helps, but we're human. We need some encouragement and support from others.
I'd argue that those in the concentration camps had the highest level of positive thinking. The will to survive and endure.
October 17, 2007 at 8:20 am
But Books Build Character??? Maybe in a movie, but in real life. My opinion, it is a combination of our innate traits and environment. All the people we have met, experiences we have and to a small degree the books we have read ( school, college etc ) I can apply engineering principles to a problem, but it is my creativity that actually produces the solution. There are countless situations where your attitude has no bearing or influence. Can you honestly say you can choose to be happy in any situation? What do you think will be popular if we have a Depression, a prolonged war in Iraq, Iran? Can we all just decide to be happy about it?
Yep, books build character. In a way, you've already agreed. A good part of your environment is completely in your control. Your environment is simply the situations you find yourself in each day. Making a conscious choice to sit down and read something instead of watching your television would constitute an act on your part to change your environment and your influences. If you truely believe that your happiness is determined by your circumstances, I feel sorry for you; I really do. If you'll notice, none of the books that I suggested involved controlling the world and Joel Osteen did not make my list, but I do think that reading one of his books would still be better for your attitude than watching 'reality' TV all night.
October 18, 2007 at 2:23 am
I see it as a question of diversity.
It is ok to be extroverted / introverted / young / old / black / asian / white / male / female / have a busy home life / be totally dedicated to work 100% of your waking hours / religious / atheist / smoker / nonsmoker etc. I think a manager's duty of care to *all* their staff is to ensure they are not held back, ostracised or discriminated for or against because of their individuality.
It sounds like you have a lot to offer an employer. Sometimes it helps to occasionally compromise. I never went go-karting in my life and didn't know I'd enjoy it until I chose to go voluntarily with work colleagues one weekend. Now we go every 2-3 months and have great fun as a team. If I hadn't enjoyed myself I would not go again, but I have developed working relationships with colleagues to know that I would be very welcome to go along but feel no obligation if I am busy or just do not fancy it. They know I don't enjoy running around so don't pressure me to attend the occasional paintballing session etc.
I also know from experience that 'forced fun' does not work, so I appreciate how it feels on some compulsory events.
I think the answer is to be willing to compromise occasionally, and not to spoil events for others if you don't want to go yourself.
October 18, 2007 at 5:56 am
Well said and summarized Paul.
~paul hewitt (10/18/2007)
I see it as a question of diversity.It is ok to be extroverted / introverted / young / old / black / asian / white / male / female / have a busy home life / be totally dedicated to work 100% of your waking hours / religious / atheist / smoker / nonsmoker etc. I think a manager's duty of care to *all* their staff is to ensure they are not held back, ostracized or discriminated for or against because of their individuality.
It sounds like you have a lot to offer an employer. Sometimes it helps to occasionally compromise. I never went go-karting in my life and didn't know I'd enjoy it until I chose to go voluntarily with work colleagues one weekend. Now we go every 2-3 months and have great fun as a team. If I hadn't enjoyed myself I would not go again, but I have developed working relationships with colleagues to know that I would be very welcome to go along but feel no obligation if I am busy or just do not fancy it. They know I don't enjoy running around so don't pressure me to attend the occasional paintballing session etc.
I also know from experience that 'forced fun' does not work, so I appreciate how it feels on some compulsory events.
I think the answer is to be willing to compromise occasionally, and not to spoil events for others if you don't want to go yourself.
October 18, 2007 at 9:28 am
On the micro-management aspect:
Boy - when someone says they want to micro-manage me (which has been rare, thank God), I run fast, very fast ,for the front door. :w00t: Truth is, they usually don't give a warning first.
I find this practice to be one of the most abhorrent, irritating, morale-deflating, tools that a manager may want to employ. If he/she doesn't trust an employee's ability, they shouldn't have hired them in the first place. These are people who, of course, can't keep a 'hands off' approach in day-to-day coding activities. And I suspect that they feel fairly insecure about their own job status with the company. If they're so concerned about the actual code, they could handle this more diplomatically by doing scheduled code reviews - or come to the realization they're not management material and post for a QC job instead. That way, they get to see all the code they want! Grrrrrrrr!
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