September 29, 2007 at 6:43 pm
It seemed for the past couple years, I had a lot of problems with my job mostly because of
'people'. I just forced to resign my job a couple days ago. The manager who forced me to resign was the one who wrote an outstanding performance view of me this March. Six month later, he got promoted to be the director and I was reassigned to another manager.
This manager worked remotely so we communicated through email, phone call and instant message. Our working and communication style was different and sometimes we had conflicts because we misunderstood each other. He also said he would micro manage me because he did not know me too well, he checked every single query and stored procedure I wrote. He gave me a template to write the query and I thought it was ridiculous and refused to use it. He made me used one of the function he wrote, I did but I found out the function returned the wrong value. That function was used by him for a few years. I kept finding things he did wrong, maybe that's why he tried to intimate me more and more. I should pretend to be dump and look other way !!! But it was not my style, I made sure the work was correct.
My old manager (the new director) said I was not a team player because I did not follow my manager direction completely and this caused a lot of stress on the team so he forced me to resign. He knew I was the one had the strongest SQL skills but he said he rather hired someone following direction with weak SQL skills. He said people could always learn SQL. I hated to tell him that in my previous company my IT director said the same thing, but it turned out not everyone can learn SQL, just liked me I tried for years to learn swimming, I still sank to the bottom of the pool !!!!!
I admit I am a private person. I don't like to socialize so I don't like to go out for lunch. I don't eat lunch and I use my lunch hour to run errands and just be alone, can't I do that? My new manager wanted me to go to dinner when he was in town. But I was sorry he worked remotely, I had to go home everyday after work and there were tons of stuff to do. I could not go out to dinner because I needed to take my kid to violin lesson, was it my fault? A few months ago, we had a conference, after dinner, they all wanted me to go to the bar and I refused. I did not drink and I did not like to go to the bar, was it my fault?
So I am not a team player ? All I want is to do my job. Actually all the past years I worked on projects pretty much alone.
Am I too stubborn? But I don't want to have people walk over me. Should I just follow direction even it was wrong? Should I play dump? Should I keep my mouth shut and never suggest new way to improve the application?
I need HELP !!!:crying::sick:
September 29, 2007 at 8:41 pm
It's hard to say without having seen the situation firsthand.
I will say I think it is important to bond with co-workers outside of work. Not all the time, and not every event, but once in awhile that team building really pays off with a stronger team. My first reaction is that you should make time once in awhile to go to lunch or out after work with the team. I've been out with lots of people that don't drink and there's no pressure to do so.
However I'm not in your situation, so I can't comment if you did something that caused problems or not.
Some managers have trouble with people that won't be part of a team. It's not right or wrong, but it may cause problems with their style of management and they may not accept a person on their team that wants to work alone.
September 29, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Loner, I'm sick of seeing you hurt, and I'm sick of telling you what do to CHANGE YOUR LIFE for the better. This is the last time I tell you. I worked for me a all my friends. So dish out the 30 bucks and buy the damn movie, watch it and be happy.
September 30, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Ninja
I tried to find the movie at Blockbuster and they never heard of that movie.
September 30, 2007 at 2:47 pm
You need to buy it. Click my link and go to Amazon to get it.
September 30, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Sorry to hear about what's happened to you (again?).
"So I am not a team player ? All I want is to do my job. Actually all the past years I worked on projects pretty much alone.
Am I too stubborn? But I don't want to have people walk over me. Should I just follow direction even it was wrong? Should I play dump? Should I keep my mouth shut and never suggest new way to improve the application? "
Only you can answer those questions. You also have to ask yourself what sort of person you want to be.
Everything has two sides - your manager would say you're not supportive whereas you would say he doesn't listen and doesn't nkow what he's doing. He would say that you wouldn't work as part of a team - you would say he didn't want to utilise your skills.
There is a talent to pointing out where people are wrong but being considered helpful rather than obstructive. I've seen it but never come close to mastering it. Pretending things are difficult and not pointing them out too quickly seems to help - as does letting someone else take the credit.
Remember that sometimes the theoretical best solution isn't always bst for the company. It needs to be supported and often it takes more time to educate the staff than they would benefit from it.
I have a similar attitude to you and it's not always appreciated - I usually take jobs where companies are in trouble and my presence gets less appreciated as systems get fixed. But then I don't need the job and the companies know that.
Try being freelance for a time - you'll be taken on for your ability rather than sociability and your collegues should expect you to bring knowledge to the job.
Doesn't sound like you were having a fun time in that job so leaving is probably a good thing.
Cursors never.
DTS - only when needed and never to control.
September 30, 2007 at 6:19 pm
I had never thaught of that for you Loner... but it's an awesome idea. You should definitly go on as a freelancer. It may not always be as easy as a normal job, but believe me it's worth it.
Just to put this in perspective. I now have a lifestyle that allows me to take 2 weeks of, do 3 trips in a single month. No job can offer that. It didn't happen overnight, but it'll never happen while you work for somebody else.
September 30, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Loner -
I feel your pain but have also been on the other side of the equation (e.g. managing a bunch of geeks) and I can only say that you really only have to options:
(1) learn to play well with others
(2) continue down your current path of constant isolation/career troubles
My personal opinion is that #1 is the preferred option, take some time every day and learn to be a better team member - it's OK to be a serious geek but you have to get along well enough with your team members so that they do not view you as a trouble maker. Yes, that means the occasional dinner out with the boss or visit to the bar with the crew... believe it or not once your bosses and coworkers come to understand your motivations they may well be much more tolerant of your needs. When you refuse to do the bare minimum (e.g. the rare dinner with the boss) to get along with your peers you set yourself up for failure - by refusing to participate even minimally in the social aspect of your work you're isolating yourself and making yourself a target whether you mean to or not.
Joe
September 30, 2007 at 10:47 pm
And don't take your directors (old managers) attitude to personally. Your manager probably told him that he couldn't work with you so he has a choice between getting rid of the manager or moving you. Could be that your manager is useful for some things (not coding apparently) so that wasn't an option - he also might not want to be seen rocking the boat too much after just being made director. Your manager might not have given him the option of moving you to another position or maybe that wasn't possible so he was left with no real option.
Did you ask him for a written reference for the time you were working for him?
Cursors never.
DTS - only when needed and never to control.
October 1, 2007 at 8:24 am
I always worked in a team environment and I was considered as a team player at work. My co-workers and I could work in a project without any problem (of course sometimes we argued and eventually we could get it done.) and we helped each other when we had problems. As far as managers, no matter if they were technical or not, most of them tried to stay away from the technical side. If they were technical, then they wanted to know how we did it so they understood the technical side. If they were not technical, they just wanted to know how the project was going.
Anyway none of them ever forced me to go to lunch, dinner or a drink. Actually in one company, all people refused to go out after work, they said the time after work were their private time. So all the company activities - company picnic, Christmas party were all held during business hour. I joined them as part of my job.
Actually the recent company I worked for was weird. They had no company activity so I did not even know who was working in the company. The CEO was Jew so there was not even a Christmas tree in our office.
Since we had different location, my old manager was working at home in Minnesota, my new manager was working at home in Indiana. Some of the team members were located at different sites. So two years ago the IT department decided to have a big conference and flied all of us to Las Vegas so we could know and meet the people. They also hired a company to teach team building. So we had to do a personal profile and learned each other's personality. There were multiple team building exercises. The first activity started and my new manager skipped out after 10 minutes because he was party all night and he wanted to go to sleep ! He was the one talking I was not a team player !!! He just wanted to have team building exercise according to his term.
Also the dynamic of the team is very important. In most cases, the people in my team respected each other's skills and trusted their teammates could get things done. As I mentioned before, my new manager did not trust me for whatever reason, he even trashed this web site and told me not to post any question anymore. Another one was the one I mentioned he was a project manager and not a developer, he never asked me question. Even I tried to help him, he did not trust me, he would ask a male developer. I think both of them had a big ego, refused to admit their weakness and had trouble to take a female developer's idea !!! Just my guess. Anyway I learned a good lesson.
Every situation is different and everyone is different. When you thought you had seen it all, some new would come out !:exclamation:
October 1, 2007 at 10:14 am
Loner,
There is a kind way to say this, but this isn't it.
Life isn't fair. People who deserve the job often don't get it. Why? Because they don't play the game.
There's the old saying, you catch more flies with Honey... Or I am sure you know what works even better 😉
Suggestion to work with guys. Eat, Drink, Joke, BS. Talk Sports. And you're a woman, so Flirt!
I am not suggesting Sexual harassment or such, and there is a line that you don't want to cross, but the more the people you work with like you the more they will accept your ideas. Try different things to get them in. Find someone that respects your opinion. Present the idea's as theirs. (Forget credit at first). Congratulate others.
October 1, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Ninja,
I bought the movie, it better be good, otherwise you owe me $20. 😛
October 1, 2007 at 2:36 pm
The movie is great. If you don't like it, you owe me 1000$ per post I answered for you :P.
October 1, 2007 at 3:10 pm
I haven't seen it, but my wife, Mom, karate instructor, and a few others loved it.
Good luck!
October 1, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Not everyone is a natural extrovert, but people skills can be learned. Here's a great people skills book:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780671027032&itm=1
The ability to relate to people will get you far. The more people you can relate to means the more money you can earn. Books build character and make you more relatable to others. Start reading books on leadership/success/relationships/business/finance. You can read 1 book per month with about 15 minutes per day. Start with the book above and let me know when you're ready for more suggestions.
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