March 3, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Life lesson -- There is always something new to learn, even when you think you know it all!
You can bury me when I stop learning.
March 3, 2008 at 1:02 pm
One of my problems is that I have had to do a little of everything, so I am not really an expert in any 1 area of SQL Server. I know nothing about Analysis Services, am pretty comfortable with Reporting Services, getting comfortable with SSIS, am decent in T-SQL, and functional in DBA tasks.
I guess you'd call me a "Jack" of most trades :w00t:
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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March 3, 2008 at 1:04 pm
This is interesting. You guys and ladies have the most knowledge in SQL (In ALL areas) and you are trying to show how much you dont know. Should others start listing how much we dont know?:P
I think that list will be too long. Maybe in my case I should put what I know since that will be small:D
-Roy
March 3, 2008 at 1:06 pm
That is so true of my skill set. When interviewing recently (and landing a job!!), that was how I portrayed myself - Jack of all trades, master of none. I think it is very common, especially in smaller IT shops where you a pulled in so many directions sometimes. The benefit is a wide, varied exposure, The downside, a little bit, you never become the master. I'm good at what I do but I wish sometimes I could be a little be more focused in one area. Actually, maybe not. It keeps things interesting to be spread a little thin from time to time!
-- You can't be late until you show up.
March 3, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Ya do gotta be flexible... shoot... I even taught myself how to run plenum cable and make both Cat 3 and Cat 5 teminations... had to do it because I was in a small shop that was growing and I wouldn't ask anyone to do something that I didn't know how to do. I even installed a full blown telephone system and programmed it... with no previous experience. I'd prefer to not have to do that ever again, but I know what's involved and how long it should take some else to do it. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 3, 2008 at 1:24 pm
It isn't that we are trying to down play our knowledge, it just the more we learn, we learn that there is more we don't know.
Maybe I am better than I think I am, but I'd rather hear that from others (humbling it may be coming from some of you on this site), than blowing my horn. Let my work speak for me, it has been the best path for recognition for me in the past 30+ years.
😎
March 3, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I keep learning. But the more I know, the more I know I do not know. What is the logic!
March 3, 2008 at 1:32 pm
zactly....
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 3, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I think the difference between a 5 of 10 and a 9 of 10 (to use a scale) isn't so much the amount of knowledge but more the intuitive thought processes that result in elegant and efficient solutions to common problems. I have been working with SQL Server since 1996/97 starting with 6.5 progressing up to 2005. Each change in version has taught me something new. Changing employers even more.
There may be people who have worked with SQL Server for fewer years, who can show me more simply because of their intuitiveness more than their experience.
😎
March 3, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Matt Miller (3/3/2008)
Jeff Moden (2/29/2008)
Folks, when you do an interview, remember... you're not trying to show off how smart YOU are, you're trying to figure out how smart the other person is for the job you want them for... and they're human... half of them are scared to death and you need to find out if they fit it with the group. Be a human... smile... have a good time and leave the sarcasm at the water cooler. The interview process doesn't need to be a butt kicking contest for anyone. Even the folks that I thought were as dumb as a post and had to occasionally be reminded to breath, were all treated with respect and in a friendly manner.Amen to that. I've had hard interviews, brutal interviews, and "just plain mean" interviews. Interviewing is something grueling for the interviewee, so do remember to be human...
One of my previous jobs gave me the 5 rounds of interviewing treatment. AFTER meeting with the CIO (round #3) - there were TWO technical interviews, last of which was what I would describe as "the firing squad" (six techs on the other side of the table firing off questions). I walked out of the interview room an hour and a half later, and heard one of them say - "well, at least we have ONE candidate that didn't cry...." I did end up getting the job - but I then proceeded to put an end to that practice. There's really no call for that.
Wow, I think I may have been out of the seeking a job for too long, I would have ended the interview myself if it was such a hostile situation, or with the number of interviews. Actually, come to think of it, I did tell a few interviewers that I was done with the interview and left after some harassing or agressive questions.
Perhaps its just some quirk of mine, but I believe its both the job seeker and company which need to show their values to the other. If the interview is harsh, condescending, or reaches a point which simply seems silly, they have shown me already that working there is not in my best interest, as such it is a waste of everyone's time to continue on.
It must be that lack of type A personality of mine.
****
Me: Ok, now tell me what you need accomplished?
User: Lots of words, and vague descriptions.
Me: Hmm, I don't think that is possible... give me a couple hours...
User: But you said that is not possible?
Me: Yea, that just makes it more fun.
March 4, 2008 at 7:53 am
I keep learning. But the more I know, the more I know I do not know. What is the logic!
I totally agree to that. Besides the technology changes so much and so fast, I just start feeling comfortable in SQL Server 2000 DTS and now I have to learn SSIS in SQL Server 2005. The other day, I did not know what I did but I killed the SSIS totally. Now I have to re-install everything.:ermm:
Matt: After that brutal interviews, you still accept the job ? Do the people act so brutal when they interview people or at work too ?
March 4, 2008 at 8:12 am
I've had to to the gantlet style interview before and gotten the job, but I've never liked being hammered on by 5 people at once. I always assumed that it was a pressure test as much as a skills test.
The best interview I have ever had was the one that got me the position I'm at now. One question, open-ended, with a two-hour long discussion. I didn't actually suspect that I was being interviewed until I was an hour into it. 🙂
I was consulting for a state agency, and my contract was about to expire. A tech support manager from a partner start-up company I had worked on a state project team with asked me to come over and talk to her counterpart on the application and database side, as she hoped I could give him some advice on a massive new SQL Server project. I said sure. When I came over, he described their overall project goal, and asked how I'd implement it, from high-level to low. I ended up scrawling data models and ETL process flows on the whiteboards in his office. He called in his BSA, who was formerly a DBA, and he looked at what we had laid out, and drilled a little deeper on technical aspects. After about a half-hour, he nods, smiles, and leaves. At this point, my new boss asks me what I would need to come on board and actually implement everything we had just designed. 15 months and 510 million rows of production throughput later, so far, so good.
March 4, 2008 at 8:24 am
Loner (3/4/2008)
I keep learning. But the more I know, the more I know I do not know. What is the logic!
I totally agree to that. Besides the technology changes so much and so fast, I just start feeling comfortable in SQL Server 2000 DTS and now I have to learn SSIS in SQL Server 2005. The other day, I did not know what I did but I killed the SSIS totally. Now I have to re-install everything.:ermm:
Matt: After that brutal interviews, you still accept the job ? Do the people act so brutal when they interview people or at work too ?
Yup - I took the job. For 5 years. They were brutal because the job itself was brutal as I came to find out. We were the only dev team "employed" within the organization, for a 16,000-person user base, and there was no DBA team to back us up, so the senior positions (like mine) got to play both roles. They wanted someone to not crack under pressure.
I spent a lot of my time (when not hunting down fires) actually fighting with upper management to improve this mess, since they had no appreciation or care for what we were providing.
I ended up leaving the org for various reasons, one of which was burnout (they didn't seem to have any issue with "slave-type labor" practices - and my personal life had some rather pressing priorities i wasn't about to place second to "their" priorities). It's kind of tragic that a healthcare org could be so "bad" for their workers' health.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
March 5, 2008 at 7:43 am
Sounds like I am definitely among the fortunate here!! I haven't had to deal with a technical interview in over 10 years since I first started consulting. Hell, I haven't even updated my resume, and I just got some business cards a few weeks ago. :w00t:
It is interesting reading seeing what others would ask or have been asked on SQL Server tech reviews.
I agree with the general sentiment that you need to be honest on the CV. Best to know when to say "I don't know" too, although you could perhaps offer up a guess for a tough question as long as you preface it as such.
I will say that I have seen Junior DBA level positions out there though. Not every company needs guruness.
Best,
Kevin G. Boles
SQL Server Consultant
SQL MVP 2007-2012
TheSQLGuru on googles mail service
March 5, 2008 at 7:49 am
FWIW, I put two people through phone screens yesterday. Both had more than 8 years experience in SQL Server. Both were listed as senior level consultants. Neither could describe the difference between clustered and non-clustered indexes, the difference between a block and a deadlock, or list ANY of the causes for a stored procedure to recompile. It's a pretty [explitive] sad state of affairs.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
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