April 17, 2008 at 6:31 am
It definitely makes me wonder about the "manager is a Nazi" comment if he lies to get into the job, then admits his first week he was hanging out and taking long walks. (Notice no comment in there about doing actual work his first week on the job).
I've known tough managers. I used to work for several insane micro-managers in Customer Service. It's one of the many reasons I ran from Customer Service. But I have yet to find one in IT simply due to the fact that the IT managers I've run across know if they leave me alone, I'll actually finish the stuff they're asking for.
And I've seen those same managers let loose the whip on the slackers who actually manage to get a contract in our department. Of course, those people don't tend to last long. Reasons why the managers hire contract first, then move to perm if the contractor works out. They want to be sure the employee can do what he says he can do (and is willing) before they make him full time.
So, of course, I take the entire "Nazi Manager" comment with a large tablespoon of salt.
April 17, 2008 at 6:33 am
Lynn,
Good catch!
I know my manager has been known to Google prospects before doing the phone interview. In fact, he did it just a few weeks ago on the last job we were trying to fill.
April 17, 2008 at 6:36 am
Jason Shadonix (4/17/2008)
Grant Fritchey (3/19/2008)
Hey, I lead a pack of Cub Scouts. I'm responsible for teaching them the "Fart Song."[to the tune "The Yellow Rose of Texas"]
Oh, my body has a passage that leads up to my heart...
:w00t:
Sounds like a very important song for young cub scouts to learn. I'd be interested in the full lyrics to this tune if you would be willing to share 🙂
I'd rather not put the whole song up here, but here's a link. Scroll down to "Rude Song to Finish."
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
April 17, 2008 at 6:49 am
I would love to have my name on the internet so that prospective interviewers know that I am not just a BS guy. And that I know my stuff. But I dont want my name on the net for being known as a liar. I will ruin all my chances....:D
PS: I thought this thread got buried. I guess not... Has the record been broken for the longest thread?;-)
-Roy
April 17, 2008 at 6:55 am
Brandie Tarvin (4/17/2008)
But I have yet to find one in IT simply due to the fact that the IT managers I've run across know if they leave me alone, I'll actually finish the stuff they're asking for.
Most (not all) IT managers that I've worked for have been there themselves and know the drill. If you're professional, you'll complete any task presented with maximum effort and minimal grumbling :crazy:. And if they're fair (most of mine have been), they'll usually compensate you in some way for those efforts - a little time off or maybe even some extra money! Remember, if you make them look good, you'll usually be rewarded in the end.
-- You can't be late until you show up.
April 17, 2008 at 6:55 am
Brandie Tarvin (4/17/2008)
I know my manager has been known to Google prospects before doing the phone interview.
When I went to my second interview for my current job, the manager interviewing me showed me everything they found on me 🙁 I was warned that my political views might clash with some in IT, but were right in line with others in the company.
He laughed and mentioned that lunch time can be quite spirited. We also went over the Oracle blog that I had at the time (I have since taken it down, since I don't use it any more).
April 17, 2008 at 6:55 am
Mark Markov (4/17/2008)
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!I came back here today and was amazed to find 31 pages of responses! I could never imagine that my post would be so popular!
Here's an update on my situation:
I was offered a contract involving SQL Server performance tuning and automating something in Rational Visual Test. I got the job because the manager was out of the country and I met with a very humble H-1 Indian guy with somewhat limited English who asked me questions such as "so have you worked with X?". I said "yes I have" and here's what I did... (making things up). He looked very impressed and I suspect he did not understand some of what I was saying but I sounded very confident!
I also talked to an HR lady who seemed to like my positive attitude. These two provided feedback via email to the manager who was in Germany at the time and she said ok. The first week I was just hanging out, taking long walks and enjoying the weather. The second week, the manager came back and that's when all the problems started. She is very nasty, never smiles, uses Hilter-like tactics to get people to work (not just myself but everyone). I could write a novel on the stuff that went on there but the less I think about it, the better I sleep 🙂
Anyway, I was out of there after 3 weeks...
Don't want to talk about it =( But I really want to talk about how to successfully pass the job interviews. I am continuously updating a document with SQL Server questions and I now also have a section of "discussion topics" which looks like this: "When they ask about X, talk about A, B and C".
Any further interview tactics would be greatly appreciated. It's very simple: I gotta either find a job or leave the country! Thanks!
Now, I've seen everything... I'm really hoping that you're joking.
You lied and deceived to get your job. You missed a prime opportunity to come up to speed on your tasks and related systems while the manager was away. You think a manager that expects you to do the job you were hired for is a "Nazi". I'd call you lazy except you work really hard at doing nothing.
You're one of the people who give folks in IT a bad name and one of the reasons that the interview process has become more difficult for decent people.
I not only suggest you leave whatever country you're in, but leave the IT profession, as well. Find a job that you'd be good at, like stress testing lie detectors or teaching penguins how to stand still.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 17, 2008 at 7:20 am
I..umm..hate to point out what seem glaringly obvious (to me at least) but I think the amazingly friendly, intelligent, and helpful atmosphere here is having it's collective tail yanked a bit.
I call Troll.
And I'd like to point out the affirmation of Godwin's Law, as invoked by said Troll:
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
As there appears to be no invocation of Quirk's Exception: this thread's dead, baby. Thread's dead.
April 17, 2008 at 8:02 am
I'm hoping it's just a tail yanking... dunno if it killed the thread or not... we'll see... heh, like everything else, "It Depends". 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 17, 2008 at 8:23 am
Mark Markov (4/17/2008)
Not sure I understand what you are saying about burning bridges...I am almost sure that noone who is going to interview me will see this thread. So far almost everyone that interviewed me was from India. Maybe it's a California thing...
I am surprized at all the hostility towards my last post. You guys did not find out anything new - I said it in my very first post:
...and all of you were still willing to help!!
Not the whole of California, just Daly City.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
April 17, 2008 at 8:24 am
Why so dead-set on getting a DBA job?
There are plenty of other IT jobs I'm sure you could do. Who knows, there may even be jobs that you have experiance doing and wouldn't have to lie your way into the position.
For that matter, have you considered non-IT jobs? When I was fresh out of college the IT market sucked, and I was able to get a job selling computers. It wasn't all that fun, but it paid the bills and was at least something on my resume.
The Redneck DBA
April 17, 2008 at 8:26 am
Unfortunately, I am not joking.
I am revealing my tactics because whether or not I find a job, I'll be happy! I am in the United States. If I have to leave, I can live in my home country for the rest of my life without working. I own property back home and if I simply put money in the bank that I've earned in the United States and live off of interest, I'll be doing good and actually saving more money!
I don't understand why you have turned hostile all of a sudden... I did say in my very first post - I don't really know SQL Server!
If you were like that from the beginning, then I would understand... but initially you were helping!
Jeff Moden (4/17/2008)
Mark Markov (4/17/2008)
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!I came back here today and was amazed to find 31 pages of responses! I could never imagine that my post would be so popular!
Here's an update on my situation:
I was offered a contract involving SQL Server performance tuning and automating something in Rational Visual Test. I got the job because the manager was out of the country and I met with a very humble H-1 Indian guy with somewhat limited English who asked me questions such as "so have you worked with X?". I said "yes I have" and here's what I did... (making things up). He looked very impressed and I suspect he did not understand some of what I was saying but I sounded very confident!
I also talked to an HR lady who seemed to like my positive attitude. These two provided feedback via email to the manager who was in Germany at the time and she said ok. The first week I was just hanging out, taking long walks and enjoying the weather. The second week, the manager came back and that's when all the problems started. She is very nasty, never smiles, uses Hilter-like tactics to get people to work (not just myself but everyone). I could write a novel on the stuff that went on there but the less I think about it, the better I sleep 🙂
Anyway, I was out of there after 3 weeks...
Don't want to talk about it =( But I really want to talk about how to successfully pass the job interviews. I am continuously updating a document with SQL Server questions and I now also have a section of "discussion topics" which looks like this: "When they ask about X, talk about A, B and C".
Any further interview tactics would be greatly appreciated. It's very simple: I gotta either find a job or leave the country! Thanks!
Now, I've seen everything... I'm really hoping that you're joking.
You lied and deceived to get your job. You missed a prime opportunity to come up to speed on your tasks and related systems while the manager was away. You think a manager that expects you to do the job you were hired for is a "Nazi". I'd call you lazy except you work really hard at doing nothing.
You're one of the people who give folks in IT a bad name and one of the reasons that the interview process has become more difficult for decent people.
I not only suggest you leave whatever country you're in, but leave the IT profession, as well. Find a job that you'd be good at, like stress testing lie detectors or teaching penguins how to stand still.
April 17, 2008 at 8:31 am
Mark,
What we were willing to do was to tell you not to lie and how to improve your skills so you wouldn't have to lie. Yet you seemed to have ignored all this advice and gone ahead with your plan to lie your way into a position. How exactly did you expect us to feel?
We like helping people. But when those people turn around, ignore all the advice they asked for, and then brag about it, it makes us wonder why our advice was sought out in the first place.
We are trying to help you. We're telling you that your current method is going to seriously burn you one of these days (probably sooner than later), but if you choose to ignore this advice -- and all the advice we've given you so far-- then so be it. On your head it shall be. Just don't come crying to us when you end up out of work.
This is not intended to be a flame or an attack. I only responded because your last post actually sounds confused about why we are upset.
April 17, 2008 at 8:34 am
Grant Fritchey (4/17/2008)
I was not going to respond to this, but I can't help it. You just broadcast to the most helpful bunch of people in the world that you'll lie to get a job. Oh, and by the way, these helpful people, they're the ones that are hiring for the very job that you're trying to lie your way into... You may have burned a bridge or two and I'm heartily sorry to say it.
Not sure I understand what you are saying about burning bridges...
The probability is too low that whoever is going to interview me will see this thread. So far almost everyone that interviewed me was from India. Maybe it's a California thing...
I am surprized at all the hostility towards my last post. You guys did not find out anything new - I said it in my very first post: I don't really know SQL Server! ...and all of you were still willing to help!!
April 17, 2008 at 8:34 am
It's a tail yank, Brandie... someone who hates East Indians and is trying to give them a bad name. It would appear that was the whole intent of the original post.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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