March 19, 2008 at 3:16 am
:Whistling:
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
March 19, 2008 at 4:16 am
Jeff said:
I don't care who you are, ya gotta laugh at that!
Gotta laugh?? Says who?
Perhaps I prefer to chuckle or snort instead. (neener)
@=)
March 19, 2008 at 5:40 am
Brandie Tarvin (3/19/2008)
Gotta laugh?? Says who?
Why... Larry TCG does... 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 19, 2008 at 8:08 am
Post #1, so I'll try to make it a good 'un.
I've read this excellent thread, I see the vibrant knowledge and experience of the participants, and I'm de-lurking to pose a question that I think is relevant to the thread.
Be kind, but be honest.
What's the job/job title/happy little niche for someone (me) with these qualifications:
Eight years teaching data management at the university level (undergrad/grad) Oracle basics, tons of diagramming, PL/SQL, etc.
Four years teaching master's level Oracle Application Development
Eight months in a new industry where I'm using MSS 2005, SSIS pretty effectively. Meaning I've refactored our old SSIS packages, created new ones with some fair complexity, hammering out an ETL process for a soon-to-be DW. Said DW draws from a production database that I can only describe as an app developer's trashcan dressed in relational clothing (so first an unravel to an ODS, then to the DW).
Pretty fair handle on the core DBA skills: backups, restores, stats, indexes, etc. No guru.
Really good with logical process thinking (what an odd self-statement that seems, to me).
And this here Ph.D. in Management Information Systems
Not a lick of .NET, vb or other OO code. PL/SQL, anything procedural...piece of cake. But I do learn at a fairly accelerated pace.
Honestly, I'm simply at a loss as to how to define myself outside of academia. All this talk of folks y'all wouldn't hire has me kind of hanging my head. Yet I look at my bag 'o skills and knowledge and think I have some strong value.
What am I, in this brave new datascape?
March 19, 2008 at 8:32 am
jburkman (3/19/2008)
Post #1, so I'll try to make it a good 'un.I've read this excellent thread, I see the vibrant knowledge and experience of the participants, and I'm de-lurking to pose a question that I think is relevant to the thread.
Be kind, but be honest.
What's the job/job title/happy little niche for someone (me) with these qualifications:
Eight years teaching data management at the university level (undergrad/grad) Oracle basics, tons of diagramming, PL/SQL, etc.
Four years teaching master's level Oracle Application Development
Eight months in a new industry where I'm using MSS 2005, SSIS pretty effectively. Meaning I've refactored our old SSIS packages, created new ones with some fair complexity, hammering out an ETL process for a soon-to-be DW. Said DW draws from a production database that I can only describe as an app developer's trashcan dressed in relational clothing (so first an unravel to an ODS, then to the DW).
Pretty fair handle on the core DBA skills: backups, restores, stats, indexes, etc. No guru.
Really good with logical process thinking (what an odd self-statement that seems, to me).
And this here Ph.D. in Management Information Systems
Not a lick of .NET, vb or other OO code. PL/SQL, anything procedural...piece of cake. But I do learn at a fairly accelerated pace.
Honestly, I'm simply at a loss as to how to define myself outside of academia. All this talk of folks y'all wouldn't hire has me kind of hanging my head. Yet I look at my bag 'o skills and knowledge and think I have some strong value.
What am I, in this brave new datascape?
A consultant.
Some would say you are over qualified because of the Ph.D. Looks to me that you'd be a good Data Warehouse Developer/Manager. You don't really need the .NET, vb, etc, in the SQL world even with CLR capabilities in SQL Server 2005 and up. It might be nice depending on the environment, but that needs to be looked at on a case by case basis.
That is just a quick thought based on what you posted.
😎
March 19, 2008 at 8:48 am
jburkman (3/19/2008)
Four years teaching master's level Oracle Application Development
Erm, Oracle Application Developer? The only one of these I know is rarely off-piste at around £500-£700 per day. Yep, them's British pounds.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
March 19, 2008 at 8:50 am
Heh... you mean besides "impressive" 😀
If I were you, I'd list the following in my objectives on a resume...
Manager/Director of IT/MIS
Hybrid DBA (Systems/Application/ETL)
Data Architect/Modeler
Certified Instructor/Mentor
If you don't want to be a manager (like some of us), don't list the first line. I hate having direct reports unless they're really low maintenance... 😉
I do have to ask... why do you want to give up teaching (assumption on my part)? Money is the usual reason...
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 19, 2008 at 8:56 am
jburkman (3/19/2008)
Post #1, so I'll try to make it a good 'un.I've read this excellent thread, I see the vibrant knowledge and experience of the participants, and I'm de-lurking to pose a question that I think is relevant to the thread.
Be kind, but be honest.
What's the job/job title/happy little niche for someone (me) with these qualifications:
Eight years teaching data management at the university level (undergrad/grad) Oracle basics, tons of diagramming, PL/SQL, etc.
Four years teaching master's level Oracle Application Development
Eight months in a new industry where I'm using MSS 2005, SSIS pretty effectively. Meaning I've refactored our old SSIS packages, created new ones with some fair complexity, hammering out an ETL process for a soon-to-be DW. Said DW draws from a production database that I can only describe as an app developer's trashcan dressed in relational clothing (so first an unravel to an ODS, then to the DW).
Pretty fair handle on the core DBA skills: backups, restores, stats, indexes, etc. No guru.
Really good with logical process thinking (what an odd self-statement that seems, to me).
And this here Ph.D. in Management Information Systems
Not a lick of .NET, vb or other OO code. PL/SQL, anything procedural...piece of cake. But I do learn at a fairly accelerated pace.
Honestly, I'm simply at a loss as to how to define myself outside of academia. All this talk of folks y'all wouldn't hire has me kind of hanging my head. Yet I look at my bag 'o skills and knowledge and think I have some strong value.
What am I, in this brave new datascape?
My 1.5 cents... You look like a mid-level (but fast track) Datawarehouse DBA/Developer. You also resemble an entry-level ETL developer. That's looking at the SQL Server experience. Looking at the Oracle experience, you look like a senior level DBA who can do what he wants. I would emphasize your ability to play in both worlds.
I wouldn't sweat the lack of programming experience. Most DBA's I know are very light in this area or, like me, they did it once but don't do it any more. Those skills rust over pretty quickly.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 19, 2008 at 9:30 am
Thanks for the great replies so far!
Jeff, it's a convoluted tangle of vectors that lead me to industry. First and foremost was not getting tenure at my first position 😉 So I took a few months off, bought a Mini Cooper S, and decided to see how the real world and I might get along.
Academe is a nifty mix of saints and devils, brilliance and bs, passions and agendas. It can be a tough nut for someone like myself who sees the students as the focus, and is highly passionate about teaching, mentoring, actually helping them grow into their adult intellectual selves. That's not exactly the focus of the top-tier business schools that I've been involved with. And, frankly, the market for IS professors (and Decision Science professors) is hugely saturated, though this is nay the place for that particular rant.
Conversely, I don't have a clue, honestly, how to find that good "fit" in industry. It's an interesting problem.
Consulting? Involves a level of self-confidence and self-promotion that escapes me. I do some, for non-profits, for free. They love that they can write me off at such a high level because of the degree 🙂
March 19, 2008 at 9:46 am
I sure do understand that... politics and education, profit and learning... frequently, they are diametric opposites.
Grant is pretty much spot on... you're probably an absolute Ninja at Oracle and as a Sr. DBA, could probably do whatever you want there. SQL Server side might be at the DBA rather than Sr. DBA level, but not sure... Systems DBA's don't need to do much in the area of programming SQL... Application and Hybrid DBA's do.
What you ought to do is go to a really good technical "head hunter" and ask them to evaluate you for what they think would be a good fit.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 19, 2008 at 9:47 am
Just for the kick of it, today I took the brainbench test for SQL 2005 Administration.
I took Basic level for starters and I got 3.14. And when I took Intermediate level I got 3.4. The only conclusion that gives me is that I do not basic knowledge.:-)
-Roy
March 19, 2008 at 9:48 am
Consulting? Involves a level of self-confidence and self-promotion that escapes me. I do some, for non-profits, for free. They love that they can write me off at such a high level because of the degree
Don't sell yourself short. If you can get up in front of a bunch immature adults (I remember when I first went to college) and help them learn and become mature adults, you can do more than you think.
If you are already doing some consulting, though pro bono for non-profits, you are already a step a head. If they like the work you are doing (or have done), they make good references for paying jobs. No one has to know that the work for them was pro bono, and that might be something to discuss with them should you look at the world of consulting and want to use them as references.
😎
March 19, 2008 at 10:43 am
Whoa! Hold on. Revelation! People who come out of college are mature adults? Hmmm... To ask this in the proper SSC manner, you have a test that proves that?
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 19, 2008 at 10:52 am
Grant said:
Whoa! Hold on. Revelation! People who come out of college are mature adults?
"Mature" is always a matter of definition. @=)
But, speaking as someone who used to work at a couple of universities/colleges... Depends. Some business schools actually attract an older clientele than most regular U's and C's. Second career, retired military, etc.
Grant also said...
Hmmm... To ask this in the proper SSC manner, you have a test that proves that?
Hey! I already passed 2 certs! Are you trying to make me pay for another?!?!
😛
Oooohhh. Idea!!! :exclamationmark: Let's build our own maturity test. We've already got some of the basics in this very thread (RPG / Exotic Foods / Etc.)... We can start from there. @=)
March 19, 2008 at 11:24 am
Brandie Tarvin (3/19/2008)
Oooohhh. Idea!!! :exclamationmark: Let's build our own maturity test.
No sense in me taking something I would fail... remember, I'm the guy that ripped one off during an interview. :Whistling:
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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