February 28, 2008 at 9:15 am
Jeff - I think your mistaken. Isn't it one of those new reality shows? :laugh:
-- You can't be late until you show up.
February 28, 2008 at 11:36 am
Oh yeah... that's it... oh... no, wait... I was thinking of just "flakes"... wrong show 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 29, 2008 at 1:30 am
GilaMonster (2/28/2008)
Mark Markov (2/28/2008)
You see, I don't really know SQL Server, I am just trying to memorize all the answers and get a job! :w00t: Please don't criticize me, I need to pay the mortgage!!!!!!!!!!!!!Are you being honest up front about your lack of knowledge?
I'll sometimes recommend someone who knows little, but is intrested in learning. If, however, they've lied on their CV then there's no chance I'll recommend.
Ay skilled interviewer will be able to tell memorised answers from actual knowledge in ust a couple of questions.
Dear Ms. Gila Monster,
NO, I am not being honest about my lack of knowledge of SQL Server! Think about it!! If my resume is junior level, nobody will even call me to an interview! You know how HR departments and recruiters work!? You have to be mid-level to senior to get hired! Grant Fritchey just confirmed it in his post above and I can see it myself from talking to recruiters. So if I present myself as entry-level I will not even GET an interview!!!
February 29, 2008 at 1:32 am
Jeff Moden (2/28/2008)
I'm curious, Mark... what position were you applying for?
The position was called "SQL Server Developer" 😛
February 29, 2008 at 4:08 am
Mark Markov (2/29/2008)
Dear Ms. Gila Monster,NO, I am not being honest about my lack of knowledge of SQL Server! Think about it!! If my resume is junior level, nobody will even call me to an interview! You know how HR departments and recruiters work!? You have to be mid-level to senior to get hired! Grant Fritchey just confirmed it in his post above and I can see it myself from talking to recruiters. So if I present myself as entry-level I will not even GET an interview!!!
I have to admit, you've got a very valid point there and you certainly have the drive/moxy to do well... I've the feeling that even though you don't know, you'd find out. Lots of companies don't appreciate that, but I do. Too bad I'm not hiring... I'd take ya on just to see what happens. 🙂
I do have to ask, though... why SQL? Why not something that you know?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 29, 2008 at 8:56 am
Jeff Moden (2/29/2008)
Mark Markov (2/29/2008)
Dear Ms. Gila Monster,NO, I am not being honest about my lack of knowledge of SQL Server! Think about it!! If my resume is junior level, nobody will even call me to an interview! You know how HR departments and recruiters work!? You have to be mid-level to senior to get hired! Grant Fritchey just confirmed it in his post above and I can see it myself from talking to recruiters. So if I present myself as entry-level I will not even GET an interview!!!
I have to admit, you've got a very valid point there and you certainly have the drive/moxy to do well... I've the feeling that even though you don't know, you'd find out. Lots of companies don't appreciate that, but I do. Too bad I'm not hiring... I'd take ya on just to see what happens. 🙂
I do have to ask, though... why SQL? Why not something that you know?
Jeff,
Thanks for your support, I was thinking the same thing - that sooner or later I will get hired for my personality!
Hopefully, one of these days a SQL guru like yourself will be home sick or on vacation and another less senior developer will have to interview me and I will get away with the bullshit =) I'll tell a story about how I built a data warehouse and look confident =) hopefully somewhere a non-technical PM will interview me and I can charm them telling them I am a good team player and have lots of energy!
Plus you're right, even though I don't know it well, it's not that hard to look in Books Online while working independently and figure out how to do something... but of course I don't have enough industry experience which is the most important and people like you can sense that.
I am being so open about it because even in the worst case scenario that I can't find a job, recession gets worse and only the best of the best (like Mr. Jeff Moden) have jobs and I have to leave my house behind, I have made enough money here to retire at a young age in my home country =)) :D:D
Thank you for your kind attention and any more insight on how to maintain the conversation in an interview and make it look like I know what I am talking about would be greatly appreciated! Maybe rather than writing "A list of interview questions" (that's what I've been doing!) I can write a list of "Things to elaborate on in response to certain questions".
Mark.
February 29, 2008 at 9:20 am
Jeff Moden (2/29/2008)
Mark Markov (2/29/2008)
Dear Ms. Gila Monster,NO, I am not being honest about my lack of knowledge of SQL Server! Think about it!! If my resume is junior level, nobody will even call me to an interview! You know how HR departments and recruiters work!? You have to be mid-level to senior to get hired! Grant Fritchey just confirmed it in his post above and I can see it myself from talking to recruiters. So if I present myself as entry-level I will not even GET an interview!!!
I have to admit, you've got a very valid point there and you certainly have the drive/moxy to do well... I've the feeling that even though you don't know, you'd find out. Lots of companies don't appreciate that, but I do. Too bad I'm not hiring... I'd take ya on just to see what happens. 🙂
I do have to ask, though... why SQL? Why not something that you know?
I have to disagee with Jeff on this one. If you aren't/weren't honest on your resume your interview would last about 10 seconds. Grant did also say that they grow SQL Server developers\DBAs from within so they are hiring entry-level somewhere, just not as SQL Server developers. Unfortunately it is true that it is hard to get an entry-level position because even for those they want 2 years experience, so the key is getting by HR. The best way to do that is to research the company, find out who is the hiring manager, and get an honest resume in his\her hands directly with a letter stating what you are looking for and asking if they have any openings.
My other advice is to get to your local SQL Sever users group and get to know people, most that attend these meetings are more than willing to help you out. This will show you are serious.
Hey Jeff, when you are hiring let me know, I'd like to work with you so I can improve my SQL skills.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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February 29, 2008 at 9:35 am
GilaMonster (2/28/2008)
When I'm interviewing, I ask questions on any or all of the below topics, depending what position I'm interviewing for.Indexes - types, differences.
Statistics - what, why
Database corruption - how to find, how to fix
Backups - types
Recovery modes - impact on recovery, backups
Restores - How, what order, common errors
Deadlock - causes, solutions (no, isoaltion levels aren't a cause or a solution)
Optimisation - how, methods
Performance monitoring - what do you look for.
Database theory - assorted questions
T-SQL - assorted (though I leave most of that to the technical test)
Like Grant, I'm not hiring entry level. I'm currently looking for someone to assis me with optimisation and complex problems. When I do interview entry levels, I'm much, much more lenient.
That said, if you say you're an expert on SQL, expect me to ask expert level questions. If you say you're average, I'll be asking average level questions.
As for your initial question, I'd guess he was looking for Select - nonclustered and insert - clustered. It's a massive simplification, but....
This is when I hate coming to this site, because I'd probably fail in interview with you guys. I'd probably do alright on :
Indexes - types, differences
Backups - types
Recovery modes - impact on recovery, backups
Restores - How, what order, common errors
T-SQL - assorted (though I leave most of that to the technical test)
Which is about 1/2 of the subjects. I'd have some answers for the rest, but probably not complete, particularly on theory (I think I understand it, but I can't define the different normalization levels even though I've read it 100 times). Of course I've been fortunate to not have had to deal with Database corruption on a regular basis so I would have to use my resources (BOL, SSC, etc...) to know how to fix it.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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February 29, 2008 at 9:42 am
I have to disagee with Jeff on this one.
Oh... wait a minute folks... I didn't mean to make it look like I was condoning this dis-honesty... not even for a New York minute! I understand and can even appreciate the reason why... but I don't condone it nor would I ever do it. Just to be clear, eh? 😀
and any more insight on how to maintain the conversation in an interview and make it look like I know what I am talking about would be greatly appreciated
Sure, Mark... as many have said, brutal honesty is, in fact, the only way to go. It doesn't take much time to figure out that you're trying BS someone about something technical. The honesty will win the day for you...
I was interviewing a fellow for an SQL Developer job... I had asked the headhunter to give an exam to each person they sent. This one fellow got a perfect score. I asked him how he knew certain obscure things, like what a "firehose" cursor was... he came right out and told me that the company screwed up and gave him the test as a takehome test and he looked it up on the internet. I asked him how many other questions he had to do that with and he came right out and said "Oh, most of them." Funny thing is, he got all 30 questions absolutely right including writing some code.
I asked him why he wanted the job so bad as to research something he knew little about. His answer was, "I've gotta get into the business somehow and I was hoping that you'd give me a shot."...
... I did. And he turned out damned good. I hired him only for his honesty and his tenacity. One without the other and he'd have been an ink-blot on the resume of life.
When you talk with these people, tell them... tell them that your NOT an SQL Ninja but that no one wants to give a guy a chance. Tell them of your study habits and tenacity... do it in the right way, and you might get a nice surprise... they just might hire you. If you get caught in a lie, there's no way they'll hire you even if you answer every bloody question just right.
Lie, in any way, shape, or form... and you're done. And word will spread and then you're not only done, you're cooked.
Brutal honesty... try it...
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 29, 2008 at 9:43 am
I don't know, I've seen your posts, Jack. You look pretty knowledgeable. I know I could learn from you.
BTW, we are hiring over here in the Island of Rhode (aka Rhode Island). And yes, unfortunately, it's not an entry level position.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
February 29, 2008 at 9:44 am
Hey Jeff, when you are hiring let me know, I'd like to work with you so I can improve my SQL skills.
The feeling is mutual, Jack... 🙂
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 29, 2008 at 9:51 am
Grant Fritchey (2/29/2008)
I don't know, I've seen your posts. You look pretty knowledgeable.
I gotta agree with that... you're no slouch, Jack.
BTW, we are hiring over here in the Island of Rhode (aka Rhode Island). And yes, unfortunately, it's not an entry level position.
Well, I'll be... Grant, I used to live in Bristol County... all three towns at one time or another... started out in Bristol, then Barrington, then Warren... I still take my summer sebaticals out in "Little Rhody" 'cause my parents still live there.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 29, 2008 at 9:51 am
Grant Fritchey (2/29/2008)
I don't know, I've seen your posts, Jack. You look pretty knowledgeable. I know I could learn from you.BTW, we are hiring over here in the Island of Rhode (aka Rhode Island). And yes, unfortunately, it's not an entry level position.
Thanks for the compliment (you too, Jeff).
It's easy to come across as knowledgeable when you have time to noodle on the problem, use BOL, and you aren't nervous because you are trying to impress.
Just moved to FL last June and will be here until at least 2011. Made a commitment and I believe in keeping them.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
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February 29, 2008 at 10:17 am
Yes Jeff is very knowledgeable about SQL server and he yelled at me a lot too.:)
Mark
I just went through a whole bunch of interviews to look for a job. These days companies liked to hire developer with DBA experiences + data warehouse + data modeling. So they are hoping to pay one person to do four people's job and they only pay one person's salary. (no salary increase of course, actually the salary has gone down at least in my area.)
Before I went to interview, I used to look at the specification of the job the company posted. If one of the requirements was about performance tuning, then I would read more about that.
Actually when I interviewed my current job, my boss asked me what is the difference between cluster and non-cluster index. I said both pointer and data was on the same page for cluster index but not in non-cluster index. He said it was the best answer he ever got. Also it was a group interview, someone asked me if SQL server was running slow then what I would do. If I did not read more about performance tuning, then I would not be able to answer the question. Of course I answered one question wrong. My boss asked me if it was possible to create index on a calculated field on a table. I said no. Then he told me it was possible. But he did not hold me for that one.
Don't get upset. I actually went to interview for a SQL server developer job and it said it would be nice to have .Net and Visual Basic experience but it was not essential. So I went to interview and the first question they asked me was about visual basic and told the guy up front I did not know visual basic. I did not get the job. If it was so important why the company put in the post that it was required. Lately a recruiter called me up for the job again and I told her that I already went to interview and gave her the inside tips. So I went to interview in Sept and so far the company still not able to hire anyone.
It is funny. My friend told me his company is not able to find anyone suitable for a few open positions and there are lots of good skilled developers cannot find a job.
February 29, 2008 at 10:35 am
Always, always, always be completely up front both on your resume and during an interview about what you do and don't know. Any job I've ever taken, had at least one part of the interview where they asked me if I knew something (most recently it was about .NET), and I've replied with something along the lines of "I don't know anything about it, but I'm sure I can learn if it's part of job and there's an O'Reilly book".
Most any employer will appreciate your honesty, and the show of confidence that you can learn new things. In fact, if that's not important to them, it probably won't end up being greatest place to work unless you only enjoy doing what you already know.
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