How To Mess Up An Interview
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Woah! Language & morals aren't the same. A person can be morally clean as a whistle while using a nice anglo-saxon word in every sentence uttered. They'd be rude (possibly, I don't agree) or unprofessional (context is king here), not immoral.
Coming from a blue collar & military background into the nominally white collar profession of DBA & developer, I've had to curtail my language quite a bit, depending on the audience. However, just because I use pretty anglo-saxon sprinklings in my discourse doesn't mean I'm ready, willing, and able, to lie & cheat. I'm not. There's a pretty big difference here.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore RooseveltAuthor of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning -
nothing at all...Sean was under the misguided impression that his article may not be intriguing enough to catch everyones' attention, so he threw it in there as a combination of red herring & red rag - & voila - it seemed to've done the trick for most people started seeing red after that...
I just wanted to say one more thing and then retire permanently from this thread...
Regardless of how everyone feels about Sean, the fact remains that it takes all kinds and in the real world we have to know how to deal with everyone - the good, the bad and the ugly - many of us may not have the luxury of turning down a job if it comes our way just because we don't like the interviewer/project manager/whoever...in fact, most people I know "fake it" just to make it past the door and try hard to give the impression that they'd be a good fit even if inside their heads the voice of reason is going - "egad - what am I getting into - hope my next interview goes better so I can turn down this one"...
And for everyone whose sensiblities have been offended by this article - the sad news is that Sean is out there - interviewing and hiring - and there probably are many more Sean-clones lurking around these hiring spots - heck - your next job interview could bring you face to face with one - and some of you will go - "phew - this guy's ok - just the kind of work environment I'm looking for" & the others will say - "aah - seems to be a Sean-type - don't care if I don't see an honest day's work for the next 10 years but I'll be da&*$d if I work for him"!!!
BTW - the usage of "gay" maybe juvenile but it is more colloquial than offensive - every single college kid I know says this and they are NOT referring to people of different sexual orientation...
and this I am really curious about....how many of these readers ever saw - "LIFE OF BRIAN" & walked out of the theater in an indignant huff 5 minutes after the movie began ?!?!?!
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
Crossed a picket line in Oklahoma to see "Life of Brian", great movie.
The thing with religion is, it can be quite scary for those of us outside. For example, I was interviewing a lady for a DBA position. She was constantly saying "my church this" and "my church that" and "my church the other thing." After hearing it several times, I finally said, "Oh, what church do you go to?" At which point the nice church lady turned bright red, her brow furrowed and she growled at me "You can't ask that kind of question. That's discrimination." At which point I thought my rear end had become a broken pezz dispenser (needed to slip in a pezz reference somewhere). Seriously, I was truly scared of this woman's approach and advised that we not hire her, not because of her religion, but because of her attitude about her religion.
I think Sean hit the nail on the head when he said that you need to tailor your responses to the interviewer. That let's you know what kind of place you're working at, to a degree. As I mentioned earlier, corporate-ville is getting pretty severe about what we can say & can't say in an interview. To a very large degree this masks the environment that people will be working in (for example, some cursing & no hardcore religious zealots of any pursuasion).
As to the all the rest, time to grow an epidermis people.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore RooseveltAuthor of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning -
I can't believe I read 108 messages in this thread. I also can't believe that the majority of them opposed the article so strongly. I can certainly tell by the posts which people actually read it and which just skimmed it!
I liked the article and took it as I believe it was intended; the point may have been missed if you didn't read the whole thing. I was actually a little dissappointed that there wasn't a follow-up article in the newletter this morning but when I went search for Sean's blog I not only found two blogs but also located a listing here for the follow up article!
Here are the requisite links:
Edit: The article listed above is actually not a follow-up but an older article by Sean. The older article is from the Interviewer's point-of-view.
[font="Tahoma"]Bryant E. Byrd, BSSE MCDBA MCAD[/font]
Business Intelligence Administrator
MSBI Administration Blog -
I can't believe I just wated my morning reading this idiotic article. I've interviewed many people in my life and it doesn't serve anyone to curse during an interview. Perhaps such methods should be reserved for interviews for a mom and pop type of shops where your brother's the manager, your sister's the QA, and your cousin is the interviewer...
So many great articles on SqlServerCentral...what a shame that this one made it.
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I think this article makes several good points. Many of the younger applicants, being interviewed, do not have a sense of propriety, when it comes to language. They speak as if they are among their peers, and a number of them do not care what falls out of their mouths.
I did take offense wth the comment about "… it's really gay". That is as bad as cussing.
If one thing is to be taken from this artice, it is practice, practice, practice.
OlderButWiser
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The internet is here.
The good news: a wealth of information is at your fingertips.
The bad news: anyone with a keyboard can fancy himself a "writer."
This article starts out legitimately enough with some good advice about rehearsing for interviews, then descends into irrelevant anecdotes (is religious proselytizing really a huge problem in IT? I am lucky enough to have escaped most of it), ending with stream-of-consciousness absurdities that no professional could take seriously. I wonder if a tequila shot was being done upon completion of each sentence.
In words the author might comprehend, this article sucked a$$.
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Can we rename this, "How To Mess Up An ARTICLE"? Your advice is quite offensive to me as a Christian. Yes, I agree that it is good to keep my Christian beliefs out of an interview, but your messages seem as if they are attacking me and my fellow believers. Geez guy, chill out on the Big Man Upstairs!
As for cursing, it's better not to do it in an interview, period. Stick to SQL, eh?
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661 words on cursing! Give me a f------ break.
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Sorry, but I don't see much need for advice that labels "God bless you" as offensive and yet at the same time extolls cursing. All it tells me is that it's okay to offend some people in certain ways, but not other people in other ways.
If this is good interview advice, then I will indeed thank the Lord I don't need a new job at the present time.
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> People tend to get far more upset about religious topics than they do about swearing. How many wars have been started over cursing?
Okay, I get it. Religion is responsible for war.
> And how many people have been beaten and tortured until they pledged allegiance to a particular swear word?
Aha! And so the United States beats and tortures people! If not the U.S., who else says a pledge of allegiance?
> When’s the last time you were woken up on Sunday morning to someone knocking at your door trying to get you to swear more?
I can't even remember the last time I considered knocking on someone's door to be the equivalent of starting a war, and worthy of mentioning in the same paragraph.
> There’s not very much out there that will invoke strong emotion in someone like religion will.
Since you've been doing your best to evoke such emotion, Sean, I will defer to the expert on this subject.
> Look what happened to the Dixie Chicks, and they just talked about Bush.
So then what does that have to do with religion?
> Quite often it’s not enough to believe in God, you also have to believe in the exact same God that someone else does to be accepted.
Or be like yourself, a model of tolerance and open-mindedness.
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Get a life everyone - even if you didn't find the article amusing (I did - my choice), get over it. It's obvious that many of you have signed up and made your first 1 or 2 posts to SQL Server Central just because of your opposition to keeping things non-religious or some amusing "advice" on use of colourful terms in our language. If you have not yet bothered to sign up and contribute to the community by reading other articles and providing comments, etc - why do you feel you should comment on this one? I too know many gay people and don't even think of them as "gay" - they are just another friend - they don't take offense to use of the "gay" word when used in the fashion in the article - I don't see why I should take offence on their behalf?
I hope many of you stay on and share your DBA knowledge - SQL Server Central is a great resource of all things SQL and also some things not quite so SQL (this article being one of them) - the more people who contribute meaningfully to the discussions the better...
BTW - Sean, very clever with the CH... word
hahaha -
I'm offended by the tone of this article, the phrases, and the conclusions.
...and I almost never get offended. I'm not religious, gay or uptight. Heck, I'm nearly an atheist, but I found the use of "crap" to refer to one's reglious beliefs in poor taste. I found the use of the phrase "that's gay" ugly.
Who wrote this article - a 12 year old riding in the back of the bus on the way home from detention?
I have interviews about 100 people for DBA positions in the last 2 years. Not a lot, but enough to know what works during an interview, from a hiring manager's point of view.
Personally, I wouldn't be offended if someone cussed during an interview. Heck, I might even think, personally, that the person is comfortable with himself and real. However, professionally, I'd question the person's ability to adapt to a situation appropriately. If a team member of mine used the word "fuck" in front of the business users, I'd be conselling him on professionalism. If a team member of mine said "he's so gay", like a 12 year old, I'd most likely write him up in order to protect the company. It's no different than if someone said "he's such a nigger" -- it's derogatory and tacky....even if some homosexuals use the expression.
Isn't it odd that our writer chose to mask the real cuss words, while parading out the word "gay" as a derogatory term with no problem?
I wouldn't be offended if some one used a religious phrase such as "God bless you" or "Peace be with you" to me. However, if someone who reports to me starts imposing their own religous beliefs on othe team members or users, I'd be conselling him against doing so in the work place. Same goes for extensive political conversion attempts.
As a hiring manager, I expect interviewees to be showing me their absolute best behaviour, not their worst.
And if the author doesn't want to work at my company because I have such draconian expectations, so be it. We'd both be happier based on that choice.
Finally, the tone and positions in this article have significantly lowered my opinion of this website. This is not just a disagreement type of thing; it is a lack of professionalism thing. I find that really sad.
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Jumping in very late here....
GPF - I'm left handed. Should I take issue with that remark?
The article did certainly spark a lot of attention. My take is that it came off sounding a bit arrogant and therefore the satire could easily have been missed. IMHO, discretion is absolutely the better part of valor especially in the workplace and I for one would avoid both religion and cursing at any interview at all costs. I'd also keep politics and other sensitive subjects at arm's length. None of the above belong at your place of employment, period.
As to the gay remark, it's vernacular and in common use so some say "what's the big deal"? But in the context of an article like this, I don't think it's appropriate. I have numerous gay friends and jokes, innuendo, and poking innocent fun are sometimes rampant among us all. But (and this is a big but) this is in an environment where we all know each other and have developed a rapport based on our mutual respect of each other. In black and white text where such a relationship has not been established, it comes off as insensitive.
For example, if I watch an episode of South Park, I can pretty much expect one of the kids to spout off something like "Dude, that is so gay" or "that is so lame" or something equally 'offensive' at some point. The show is satirical and meant to offend so I expect it when I watch. But if I'm walking down the street and someone I don't know yells at me saying "Hey, lefty cracker! Get off of my lawn", I could get offended. See the difference?
My hovercraft is full of eels.
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> Get a life everyone - even if you didn't find the article amusing (I did - my choice), get over it
Does it offend you that offensive remarks strike certain folks as, well, offensive? If it's okay for you to be offended, and to express yourself on the issue, then it's okay for some of the rest of us to do likewise.
> It's obvious that many of you have signed up and made your first 1 or 2 posts to SQL Server Central just because of your opposition to keeping things non-religious or some amusing "advice" on use of colourful terms in our language.
Certainly, that remark doesn't apply to me. This will be my 259th post.
> I hope many of you stay on and share your DBA knowledge - SQL Server Central is a great resource of all things SQL and also some things not quite so SQL (this article being one of them) - the more people who contribute meaningfully to the discussions the better...
Speaking for myself, I'll be more than happy to stick around as long as I feel welcome. A couple more articles like that one, however, could do a lot to obscure the welcome mat.
> sswords: "My take is that it came off sounding a bit arrogant and therefore the satire could easily have been missed"
Oh please. Satire, my spreading middle-aged fanny. G. K. Chesterton is satire. Mark Twain is satire. The "Wizard of Oz" is satire. This article was just insulting.
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