January 5, 2012 at 7:15 am
Me : Are you making me an offer?
If not I'd like to know more about your needs and make sure I can do a great job for you all the while being fulfilled working here.
Then if we're both happy we can start negociating.
January 5, 2012 at 7:33 am
In my 12 years as a SQL Server DBA or developer, I have worked as a fulltime employee for 3 different companies. Two of those companies have had over $10 billion in revenue. There have also been a few 6 month contracts in between those.
I have never been asked for previous salary verification with proof of a paystub.
In fact, I would consider that bizarre if my future HR department requested it.
At what point in the process would they feel bold enough to request something like that?
After the HR interview? Tech interview? Hiring manager interview? After that 3rd interview is typically when you get your offer letter with a salary number.
Between the final interview and the offer letter (with salary), the only paperwork I have ever been asked to provide is an authorization for a background check.
If your potential salary at this future job was going to be affected by the paystub proof, then they would certainly need the paystub evidence prior to the offer letter.
Are these companies requesting such proof after the offer letter? I cannot imagine that providing a paystub is a mandatory requirement. Surely that is an issue that is commonly waived if the candidate raises even a minor objection over privacy. I don't consider salary verification to be at all standard procedure across the USA.
January 5, 2012 at 7:39 am
I go with a number in mind. If I were to ever be required to provide a paystub for a previous employer I would tell the prospective employer "No thanks!"
When they press for a number, I also like to ask what the range is they are looking to fill. There is no sense continuing if they aren't in your ballpark
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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January 5, 2012 at 7:50 am
But it IS worth continuing if you're good at what you do. It's all part of the negotiations. I've seen several good DBA's get better than the range because they were able to prove they were better during the interview. It's also a part of "user education". A lot of companies simply don't know what a DBA actually does. The interviews are a good place to find that out and to take the opportunity to teach them.
The "range" isn't necessarily an obstacle and that's been my point all along. Cut the bull and ask for what you truly believe you're worth compared to the rest of the industry. Of course, to know that, you've had to do some homework in many more ways than one. 😉 And also remember that if you do get what you want, you'd better be able to live up to your claims or it'll be a short term job. 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
January 5, 2012 at 8:19 am
Good points. I know of many places that were looking to waaaaaay underpay/lowball and absolutely refused to pay above x dollars for a Sr.
One place knew my range and brought me in saying they were considering adjusting their range. At the end I found out they had already made an offer to somebody else for half. They were using that as an opportunity to glean some ideas.
If the ranges are close, we might talk turkey (which is why I was willing to talk in the first place with the above example). In the example above, they were close in what they said their range was but actuality was they were trying to get sub-jr to fill the role. It's a tricky spot. If they state their range is sub-jr, I will decline.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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January 5, 2012 at 10:34 am
SQLRNNR (1/5/2012)
When they press for a number, I also like to ask what the range is they are looking to fill. There is no sense continuing if they aren't in your ballpark
That is an excellent point. When recruiters contact me, typically the first thing I ask is, "What is the salary range your client has in mind?" Mostly I am just curious to know what the current market for Sr SQL Server DBAs is. I am happy with my current job, my commute (short) and my salary/bonus. But I am always curious if there is something amazing out there that I don't know about.
So often the recruiters respond with something like, "It is open". That bugs me. Do they want a senior guy with 10 years of experience? Or do they want a mid-level guy with 2-5 years experience? The salary range typically tells you a lot about the company.
There is no use agreeing to interview 2-3 times, then find out at the end that they are offering $10,000 less than your current job. You need to know up front if the salary range is even in the ballpark. Just my opinion.
January 5, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Jeff Moden (1/5/2012)
The "range" isn't necessarily an obstacle and that's been my point all along. Cut the bull and ask for what you truly believe you're worth compared to the rest of the industry. Of course, to know that, you've had to do some homework in many more ways than one. 😉 And also remember that if you do get what you want, you'd better be able to live up to your claims or it'll be a short term job. 😛
I totally agree, you should really do some research and find out what you are worth. On one side if you push for a really high salary and you aren't up to snuff for that range you are only hurting the rest of us. On the flip side, I get paid fairly well where I am, and because of the recent low-ball syndrome of the last year or so I began to question if I was really worth as much as I am making. After a lot of reflection and study the answer was definitely YES :-D.
To play devil's advocate here though, I have seen the recurring theme (that I agree with) of that we generally won't even talk with the recruiters if they are not up to our range but, what if they give you a range that is well over your current salary...will you still talk with them? 😉
My experience lately, is that I am getting what sounds to be like quite a lot of 'foreign' recruiters that know absolutely nothing about the job market. What is worse is that I will get a good salary range, the recruiter agrees to submit my resume and then I never hear from anyone again. I am wondering if something is off on my resume or something but it seems odd. I haven't had that problem in the past though.
Link to my blog http://notyelf.com/
January 5, 2012 at 4:46 pm
shannonjk (1/5/2012)
To play devil's advocate here though, I have seen the recurring theme (that I agree with) of that we generally won't even talk with the recruiters if they are not up to our range but, what if they give you a range that is well over your current salary...will you still talk with them? 😉
I have heard lately some above average base salary ranges in the $125,000 to $135,000 range which caused my ears to perk up and listen. But it typically involves something like moving to Kansas. They must really need to import IT talent there. It was an insurance company if I recall. it actually seemed legit with a recruiter that I had worked with before.
shannonjk (1/5/2012)
My experience lately, is that I am getting what sounds to be like quite a lot of 'foreign' recruiters that know absolutely nothing about the job market. What is worse is that I will get a good salary range, the recruiter agrees to submit my resume and then I never hear from anyone again. I am wondering if something is off on my resume or something but it seems odd. I haven't had that problem in the past though.
I get at least two recruiters per day calling my cell phone with an Indian accent. And they are for the most part clueless and barely understandable. I don't take them seriously. If those are real jobs at all, they are at best low end jobs that H1B visa holders typically jump at. $35 per hour for 3 months and having to move across the country for it so you can keep your visa active.
January 5, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Oh man if I could move to Kansas I would be there in a heart beat 🙂
It seems to me most places are pushing the $80k-90k range give or take for the Seattle Area. I have found a few much more promising leads than that but I usually have to go hunt them down myself :-D. That and even on the non-foreign recruiters I rarely ever hear back. There seems to be a lot of tech recruiting companies out there that aren't getting a whole lot of results. Makes me wonder how much money is in it.
Link to my blog http://notyelf.com/
January 5, 2012 at 5:10 pm
shannonjk (1/5/2012)
Makes me wonder how much money is in it.
A lot, particularly in volume. Remember those recruiters are basically better educated telemarketers. The ones you need to know are the client contacts, not the consultant contacts. The Client Contacts are the ones who get you in the door at the businesses. The recruiters are really nothing more then screeners who get a cut.
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January 5, 2012 at 7:19 pm
shannonjk (1/5/2012)
Oh man if I could move to Kansas I would be there in a heart beat 🙂It seems to me most places are pushing the $80k-90k range give or take for the Seattle Area. I have found a few much more promising leads than that but I usually have to go hunt them down myself :-D. That and even on the non-foreign recruiters I rarely ever hear back. There seems to be a lot of tech recruiting companies out there that aren't getting a whole lot of results. Makes me wonder how much money is in it.
If you are in the Seattle area, they are low balling you. The standard around here is $100,000 to $110,000 in base salary for full-time, if you have 5-10 years of experience. I play this game with recruiters all of the time to keep up to date on the local condidtions.
January 5, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Yeah that sounds about right. That is my range and I have 7 years experience so that stands to reason :-D.
I am in no hurry to move though, I like my job but like mentioned before sometimes I like keeping my eye out for some amazing opportunity 🙂
Link to my blog http://notyelf.com/
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