How much do you earn?
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although the thread went a little off topic i do have a comment about the US. If you are young and have no college but (like me) have progressed from your first BASIC app (when i was 11) to being an all out developer you will have to come to grips with the fact that you *will not* get anywhere near what the *lowest* salary for your position is. As far as a comment on how to increase the sub-par (maybe illegal, definately immoral) salary you have to get certified out the but#. Become indispensible. Deal with it for the paper experience.
To conclude... i might write an article about "that young guy" some of you may work with. Try to explain that persons possible situation to you all.. comments welcome.
Edited by - pi on 06/19/2003 07:30:28 AM
Edited by - pi on 06/19/2003 07:31:36 AM
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I have to disagree with you about the "never get near the lowest salary" part.
I did not finish school, let alone any formal training. It's about how good you are and proactive with others in the work place. Do not suck up to your bosses, just offer help in any areas you know. My biggest problem is getting my foot into the door at a new company due to lack of education. I do however move quite quickly once in.
It depends on the person, not the qualifications. As said in the other "What makes a good developer" thread, it's how you attack a problem and find solutions to things you don't know. That is what makes you move.
Cheers,
Crispin
Cheers,CrispinI can't die, there are too many people who still have to meet me!It's not a bug, SQL just misunderstood me!
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quote:
I'm often in meetings with senior mgmt, and they don't care about SPID's, locks etc. They want business solutions. That's what I do.I have to diagree here!!.
When a critical system is down because of locking & blocking etc, there is ALWAYS a post mortem, and possibly a witch hunt follows.
The world & his wife want to know how it happened (even when they were warned), and who they can blame, and how to avoid it (they probably won't take the advise tho'!!)
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quote:
jaja, don't worry guys, here in Argentina I earn 8k only. And it is considered a very good salary. Things are not goin right here, but we do what we can.Igualmente es un hermoso pais!.
racosta, you earn U$S 8k/month? In Argentina?
Tell me where you´re working, i´ll send you my profile RIGHT NOW!!!
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Droppinbg back a bit, my tax rate is US 35% (my wife works), not sure about the state rate in CO. Hell, I'm not against taxes, they allow me to live in this great coutry. Wouldn't want them above 50%, but can't complain too much about where they are.
More and more I think companies are hiring on experience, but you can slip slightly above your level if you can convince someone you're a good investment. Of course, it seems most interviews come down to the "would I have a beer with this person" test, which is fine. Personally I think having a team of people that like each other and get along rates above experience.
Steve Jones
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Yes, my US tax rate is around 20%. I am married, and that adds all kinds of hands reaching for my paycheck.
I live in Texas which is one of the last holdouts for no state taxes (we think of it as a right not a privelege).
And, yes, the lowest number is the lowest value with experience. Almost all of us had to work up from pocket change to dollars. It's the trip back down that bothers me.
Yes, the advice to help out is very true. Don't just sit back and do the minimal. Become the person who answers questions and helps out. The value for the company is like an estimate for a project. They don't really know what they need until they get it (or don't get it). If they feel that you are just fulfilling the job description they won't worry about letting you go if push comes to shove.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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I'm way down South in Birmingham, AL and am making $78K/year. Judging by the papers a DBA position goes from anywhere from $50k-70K starting here. If you want more than that you should go to a bigger city, but it will cost alot more to live there. Cost of living here is quite reasonable though, with an average home going for $100K.
I am an Oracle DBA though. I do work with SQL Server some, but none of my mission critical applications are running on it. Maybe about 30% of my instances are on SQL Server and the rest on Oracle.
Right now I am seriously considering making a move into full time consulting. But like some of you the loss of benefits has me worried. They say you should add an addition 20% of your net salary to it's self to get your real salary, and with those numbers I would not be able to take less than $100/hour to make it worth my while. That is considering that I would only find work for 2/3s of the year.
Anyone looking for a partner for a consulting firm?
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Hi racosta,
quote:
jaja, don't worry guys, here in Argentina I earn 8k only. And it is considered a very good salary. Things are not goin right here, but we do what we can.I know. I've signed some Argentina bonds for my fixed income portfolio. and pray that there will be no default!
Cheers,
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Well, here's my two cents from a female perspective. It is next to impossible for a woman to make the same salary in America as a man (unless you are extremely lucky, talented, the boss's daughter, or the boss's girlfriend)
. If you look at my profile, I have credentials and experience a mile long but my gender has always been a crippling point when it came to salary. However, I can tell you that three and a half years ago, right before the Dot Com bomb, I was making $60,000/yr. However, I had to take another job two and a half years ago because the company I was working for was starting to threaten layoffs and their stock dropped below $1/share. I'm now making $50,000/yr.I also think geographic location has a lot to do with the salaries. Here's what Career Builder's salary expert says for DBA's in Melbourne, FL:
quote:
The Database Administrator working in FL - Melbourne now earns an average salary of 61,578. Half of those in this position would earn between 47,317 and 83,703 (the 17th and 67th percentiles). These numbers are derived from real, area specific, survey data.When benefits and bonuses are added to this salary, the average total compensation for this position would be 74,987. The report below also explains how the cost-of-living in this location affects the actual value of this salary.
I don't feel so bad after looking at that.
Just for comparison, here's the stats for New York, NY
quote:
The Database Administrator working in NY - New York now earns an average salary of 72,116. Half of those in this position would earn between 55,414 and 98,027 (the 17th and 67th percentiles). These numbers are derived from real, area specific, survey data.When benefits and bonuses are added to this salary, the average total compensation for this position would be 88,164. The report below also explains how the cost-of-living in this location affects the actual value of this salary.
However, I felt extremely lucky after I read this article in the Florida Today:
quote:
Job market worst in 10 yearsEmployers holding hiring or cutting jobs
Associated Press
MILWAUKEE -- Three out of four employers expect to cut jobs or hold off on hiring this summer, contributing to the worst employment market since the early 1990s, a new survey said today.
About two-thirds of employers said they don't expect to hire any additional workers and 9 percent plan to eliminate jobs during the July-to-September quarter, according to the survey by Manpower Inc.
"Let's try not to get anyone too depressed, but the facts are the facts," said Jeffrey Joerres, chairman and chief executive officer of Manpower, which surveys 16,000 businesses for its quarterly survey.
Although 20 percent of employers in the survey said they plan to add jobs, competition for work is expected to be high. Six percent are uncertain about their employment plans.
"It's a buyer's market right now if you're an employer," said economist Patrick Anderson, principal of Anderson Economic Group in Lansing, Mich. "Some of those who are getting a real shock are those who are emerging from college and don't have strong work skills."
Manpower, which is based in Glendale, Wis., and is the nation's largest staffing company, has conducted the survey for 27 years.
The company collected the most-recent data in April during the war in Iraq and the SARS crisis, which analysts say could account for some employer pessimism.
"April has to be one of the worst months in recent history to take an outlook survey," Anderson said. "We would expect that a war would depress hiring plans."
Joerres said employers face uncertainty in this downturn because of its duration and multiple fits and starts. By contrast, the "classic" recession during the first Gulf War was followed by a relatively smooth recovery, Joerres said.
"I do think we're in uncharted waters from a labor perspective," he said.
Doug Thomas, operations manager of TemPro Staffing of Green Bay, Wis., called the job outlook for light-industrial semiskilled workers "very, very weak."
"More manufacturing is leaving than coming," Thomas said.
Art Ayre, state employment economist for Oregon, said his state has lost 8,500 manufacturing jobs in the last year, but he is expecting a slight rebound for his state and for the rest of the nation in the third quarter.
"We're still waiting for some indication that we'll achieve stability and then actually gain some growth," Ayre said.
The education and nondurable goods manufacturing sectors are facing the biggest impact, with each group's employment levels for the third quarter the lowest in 20 years, according to the survey.
Education jobs are at their lowest level in 27 years of Manpower data, with more employers expecting to cut jobs than those who are expecting to increase jobs.
Employment estimates across the United States are relatively consistent, with the South reporting slightly stronger hiring expectations and the Northeast expecting the slowest hiring pace for the third consecutive quarter.
All the best,
DaleAuthor: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio
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Hi Steve,
quote:
Salary is a funny component. Everyone wants to know, no one (usually) wants to say what they make. Not that I care too much about people knowing my salary, but if someone I worked with knew it, there might be bad feelings.That being said, in Denver, over the last four years, I have been as low as US$75,000 and as high as US$110,000. I'm in between now, but I was offered a job at US$65,000 last year. From what I've seen, the rates are all over the board. I'd guess a semi-experienced DBA, 2-3 years, could make from US$40,000 to US$80,000. There wouldn't be too many 80s out there. An expert/advanced DBA should be able to make US$60,000, but could go up to over US$100,000, not sure how high. Of course the jobs could be all different, some 9-5, some 24x7 on call, no overtime, etc.
I wasn't interested in knowing what specific people earn, but the general level. My impression is, that DBA is simply a highly paid job compared to Germany (assuming a 1:1 parity $ - EURO) 110,000 € a year is a salary that is considered very well paid in Germany. In most cases you have to be at least department leader?!?, managing director or positions like that in bigger companies, to reach this level.
Funny thing is, even with my somewhat 60,000€ I am considered as upper middle class earning. But after taking tax, rent, car, family...into account what's left. Not much to save, I tell you!
Cheers,
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Hi bond007,
quote:
Contracting rates in the UK vary quite a bit as well, the lowest i've seen is £15 per hour, the highest around about £80 per hour.that is ridiculous. When I was programming, they'll charged a fixed daily number of 800 - 1000 Euro. Who is willing to do this?
They should consider buying shareware
quote:
Its certainly a buyers market at the moment.It seems so!
Cheers,
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Hi Hans,
quote:
How about Tax considerations?Here in Italy we have (right now) around 4 types of contracts where the tax levels are very different. With all the different laws concerning what you have to/should pay it makes it even more of a challange to know what your Real salary is. We even have one type of contract where the salary is specified in Net income and the Company 'decides' how much tax you should pay.
I have heard a lot of people talking about the wonderful US where taxes are very low but noone that I know seems to actually know HOW much you have to pay in tax. So guys, how high is the Tax in America?
Just for reference; I pay around 39% of what I earn here in Italy and in Sweden (I know because I am swedish) I would pay around 46% tax.
now it's getting really interesting.
I guess you pay much more than 39% of what you earn. Think about all the direct and indirect taxes, like gasoline, tobacco, beer,...
Also what needs to be considered is the overall cost of living.
Cheers,
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Hi Crispin,
quote:
I have to disagree with you about the "never get near the lowest salary" part.I did not finish school, let alone any formal training. It's about how good you are and proactive with others in the work place. Do not suck up to your bosses, just offer help in any areas you know. My biggest problem is getting my foot into the door at a new company due to lack of education. I do however move quite quickly once in.
It depends on the person, not the qualifications. As said in the other "What makes a good developer" thread, it's how you attack a problem and find solutions to things you don't know. That is what makes you move.
totally agreed on that. The biggest hurdle is getting the foot right in. But once you are there, it only counts how good you are. But depending on your company and how conservative it is, there is a certain step in the career ladder which you don't get over without a university degree (magna cum laude preferred).
I guess the IT world is more relaxed on formal education than say consulting firms. Think of McKinsey, or Arthur Anderson and that kind.
Would you like to have an external consultant telling you how to do your business, who hasn't finished school? How trustworthy does this sound? No harm to you!
Cheers,
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Hi Rootman,
quote:
quote:
I'm often in meetings with senior mgmt, and they don't care about SPID's, locks etc. They want business solutions. That's what I do.I have to diagree here!!.
When a critical system is down because of locking & blocking etc, there is ALWAYS a post mortem, and possibly a witch hunt follows.
The world & his wife want to know how it happened (even when they were warned), and who they can blame, and how to avoid it (they probably won't take the advise tho'!!)
that's correct,... but do they know you when everything is working fine without any problems?
I have to deal every day with our senior management and that's my experience
Cheers,
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Hi Dale,
quote:
Well, here's my two cents from a female perspective. It is next to impossible for a woman to make the same salary in America as a man (unless you are extremely lucky, talented, the boss's daughter, or the boss's girlfriend). If you look at my profile, I have credentials and experience a mile long but my gender has always been a crippling point when it came to salary. as always there are exceptions to that rule. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HP lead by a woman? There are quite a few women very successful on their way in investment banking. As for the majority it seems like the same rocky road like here in Germany.
Cheers,
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]
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