July 30, 2012 at 4:59 pm
Hey, I am not a proud man so I am perfectly willing to admit that the job posting could use some work. (What you mean I ain't got none good grammars?! :crazy: ) I will work immediately to resolve the issues with English, grammar, and duplication.
However, in an effort to improve content of the posting I would like to ask a question?
Based on job description content alone, what would I need to write (and possibly how would I need to write it) to attract the attention of the Gail Shaws and Jeff Modens of the world?
And no fair saying, "Just put $500K/year for the salary."
I'm not saying that I am looking to hire someone that can write a book on SQL Server or speak at the next PASS Summit, but I need someone that is senior-level. I don't want someone that can write T-SQL circles around every developer in my department but doesn't know how to spell SSIS and doesn't want to. Or someone that can architect the "perfect" OLTP database structure but when asked to fail over a Windows Server cluster to the dark node asks what a cluster is and why they should care. I don't need an expert at everything, just a resident expert in a couple areas of database administration that is capable of learning new things and becoming the resident expert in those things. (example: I am the resident expert at juggling in my house. I am NOT a juggling expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I can juggle better than anyone else in my current household.)
July 30, 2012 at 5:11 pm
Start with the following:
What is absolutely required of this person, what do they need to know very well?
What do they need to have a general understanding of? (I can fail a cluster over, I wouldn't like to try building one. Would that be acceptable or is that an immediate disqualifier? Answer to that determines which category the skill goes into)
What would be nice to have?
What would this person be spending most of their time doing?
Bear in mind it is extremely unlikely you'll find someone who's a specialist in several areas. Specialist in one or two areas and competent in others is far more likely.
You joked about the salary, but it's very worth describing perks and offerings. If I were looking for a new job, I'd rate higher a company that said that they would fund training and conferences than one that didn't say that. I'll take more vacation and company-sponsered training/conferences over a higher salary. It's a two-way deal, what does the company want, what is the company willing to provide.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 30, 2012 at 5:44 pm
IN addition to what Gail said, since there are two job postings (1 DB Dev and 1 DBA) - which skills are absolutely a must for the Dev vs the DBA? Many of the skills for the DBA are also required of the Dev.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 30, 2012 at 9:05 pm
bclyde-1080677 (7/30/2012)
Based on job description content alone, what would I need to write (and possibly how would I need to write it) to attract the attention of the Gail Shaws and Jeff Modens of the world?
That's actually pretty easy if you think about it. Pretend that YOU are a pretty good candidate and currently have a pretty decent job with decent pay and decent hour and a good team of people to work with. Then, ask yourself what would YOU like to see in the job description to entice you away from such a job to the job being offered. Doing a little role playing here will certainly help your pen figure out what to write.
... but I need someone that is senior-level. I don't want someone that can write T-SQL circles around every developer in my department but doesn't know how to spell SSIS and doesn't want to. Or someone that can architect the "perfect" OLTP database structure but when asked to fail over a Windows Server cluster to the dark node asks what a cluster is and why they should care. I don't need an expert at everything, just a resident expert in a couple areas of database administration that is capable of learning new things and becoming the resident expert in those things.
BWAAA-HAAA!!!! Make up your mind! Would you really turn someone away if they knew T-SQL well enough to actually make SSIS mostly not necessary? Can you tell me why you think that a Hybrid DBA with a solid grip on most aspects of the system (perhaps failling way short on other aspects), is darned good at tuning code and indexes, and really was a T-SQL Ninja would actually be a poor choice in your book?
Stop trying to hire individuals. Build a team.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
July 30, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Also, think about this, do you really need someone on-site 5 days a week? My past experience working with SQL Server has actually shown me that I can do my job just as well sitting at my desk in an office or sitting at my desk at home. At my previous full-time jobs working with SQL Server, I didn't even have physical access to the servers. I did everything from my desk (at work or home). The only difference was the speed of the connection, 10/100MB at work and approximately 512KB from home. Used VPN over the internet to connect to work from home, but once connected it was as if I was there.
You may not find the skill level you want with the requirement to relocate. As I said earlier, I would consider it, but not for another 4 years. Plus, it would take quite a bit to pry me away from my current employer. Comes down to a great pay, benefits, and a very easy going work environment with flexible work hours.
To touch on what others have said, your original job description did seem to be looking for someone highly skilled in many areas of SQL Server. Everyone on this site has different strengths with regard to SQL Server. Jeff, for instance, is a wizard with T-SQL. I've been working with SQL Server for 15 years and he still manages to teach me new things. Now, he can probably work in SSIS, but I'll leave it to him to say how well. Next to T-SQL development and supporting standard SQL configurations (no clustering, only have done it in a lab environment or at a shop where Database Engineers installed and configured SQL Server and DBA's supported it once it was up and deployed) with some experience with database mirroring locally my next strongest area would be SSIS. I have development simple to moderately complex data exchange processes integrating data between local and geographically dispersed sites. My weaker areas are SSRS/SSAS, although I'd like to learn more there.
Except for a the few early years at a previous employer, I have not had to support the server hardware or OS. Even if we had gone with Clustering for high availablility at a previous employer, the MS Cluster would have been set up for me and all I would have had to do is install SQL Server. The Network Services people would have taken care of everything else. From a team prospective, that allows me to concentrate more on the database side of the house. I know enough about the OS and networking to get in trouble and to know that it really isn't what I want to do. I like having others that like working in that area.
Supporting a 7x24x365 environment, been there, done that, would do it again but as long as I wan't the only one doing it. Need a strong team to allow people the opportunity to step away. I have heard of people who even get calls while on vacation or when taking time off to do things with the kids like school field trips. That would be a streeror that could make people look for something else. Your posting doesn't say much about the rotation. I have read other job description where this was actually covered and in the ones I considered while looking if it said one week every 4 to 6 weeks, that isn't too bad.
July 31, 2012 at 7:15 am
bclyde-1080677 (7/30/2012)
Hey, I am not a proud man so I am perfectly willing to admit that the job posting could use some work. (What you mean I ain't got none good grammars?! :crazy: ) I will work immediately to resolve the issues with English, grammar, and duplication.However, in an effort to improve content of the posting I would like to ask a question?
Based on job description content alone, what would I need to write (and possibly how would I need to write it) to attract the attention of the Gail Shaws and Jeff Modens of the world?
And no fair saying, "Just put $500K/year for the salary."
I'm not saying that I am looking to hire someone that can write a book on SQL Server or speak at the next PASS Summit, but I need someone that is senior-level. I don't want someone that can write T-SQL circles around every developer in my department but doesn't know how to spell SSIS and doesn't want to. Or someone that can architect the "perfect" OLTP database structure but when asked to fail over a Windows Server cluster to the dark node asks what a cluster is and why they should care. I don't need an expert at everything, just a resident expert in a couple areas of database administration that is capable of learning new things and becoming the resident expert in those things. (example: I am the resident expert at juggling in my house. I am NOT a juggling expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I can juggle better than anyone else in my current household.)
I'd say you need to state pretty much exactly what you wrote here. Summarize, of course.
Maybe something like:
Needed: Generalist SQL Server DBA with competence in administration, T-SQL coding/tuning, and SSIS, experience operating in a clustered environment is desired.
Offered: Above average salary (commensurate with experience & training/education), good benefits, excellent team environment.
Looking for: Someone who can be the team-lead on all-things-SQL-Server, even if not an expert on every detail (nobody is), needs to have enthusiasm about the product and willingness to lead and mentor others on the team.
Notes: We're a 24x7 shop, so some odd-hours/coverage will be needed, and we take that into account in PTO and salary.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 31, 2012 at 8:21 am
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2012)
Also, think about this, do you really need someone on-site 5 days a week? My past experience working with SQL Server has actually shown me that I can do my job just as well sitting at my desk in an office or sitting at my desk at home. At my previous full-time jobs working with SQL Server, I didn't even have physical access to the servers. I did everything from my desk (at work or home).
Very much the same here.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 31, 2012 at 9:24 am
An interesting discussion. I like what Gail wrote as a description. Perks matter. Jeff makes sense, but that becomes a debate. Gus has a good description that's more concise and might generate interest, but I'm not sure it stresses the senior level.
The thing is senior people, the good ones, are rarely on the market. They usually have jobs, or get new ones quickly. If you want to get them interested in a move, then you need to provide some good reason. It almost seems from your tone that you're a little frustrated, which I understand, but it makes me think you want everything, but won't necessarily pay for it. Pay in salary, or in perks or flexibility or something else. Why would I want to work with your company?
You're making the job really important, but not just a job with strong skills in one area. The descriptions you write imply you want strength and flexibility in lots of areas. You say you don't necessarily need this, but as the discussion continues, that's not the impression I get from your communications.
July 31, 2012 at 9:49 am
So many great posts on this one; I'll add a couple of my own thoughts.
Managers worry that the guys who work from home put an hour at the desk, and then spend the rest of the day drinking beer and watching Judge Judy. They want a solid measure of work performed, that they sometimes don't feel they get on remote workers.
Having a Senior DBA with a mentor type mentality in the office so you can ping ideas off of them is a huge advantage to any company.
A Senior Level DBA is going to have experience, so he's probably going to have well established roots in a geographic area: wife, kids, family, house.
If that DBA was looking for a position,by default he or she is going to look locally; as the others mentioned, to get someone like that to relocate is going to require a bit of enticement;
A newbie out of college is much more likely to be willing to relocate, but wouldn't have the skillset you are looking for.
I'd look at emailing some of the local SQL Server groups in your area, and see if they might offer suggestions on Power DBA's that are local and might help fill some of the cracks, as well;
I've met some sharp cookies in my travels at various local groups myself.
Lowell
July 31, 2012 at 12:02 pm
SQLRNNR (7/31/2012)
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2012)
Also, think about this, do you really need someone on-site 5 days a week? My past experience working with SQL Server has actually shown me that I can do my job just as well sitting at my desk in an office or sitting at my desk at home. At my previous full-time jobs working with SQL Server, I didn't even have physical access to the servers. I did everything from my desk (at work or home).Very much the same here.
I would also like to add that technologies have advanced a lot over the years. The ability to put together on-line meetings with geographically dispersed people is much easier today. When I first did telecommuting we used Lotus SameTime to communicate and share ideas thoughts. It was easy and worked over the same internet (VPN) connection that I did my work.
Today, the technologies are even better in my opinion. Business try to leverage these technologies for their customers, but many won't consider them for their own employees. It is true that not everyone can successfully telecommute, some just need the office environment, some jobs just don't allow it (you need to physically touch things to work on them).
If you structure the position and the work correctly, it could work, even for off-shift personnel (those working nights or weekends). Just need to be sure that there is contact time between people to ensure tasks are understood and if there are impediments that are getting in the way of completing tasks as scheduled.
July 31, 2012 at 12:58 pm
On the telecommuting thing:
I do that one day a week (sometimes more if there's a need on my part). VPN and RDP make it easy to do the work that's needed most of the time. For that matter, the servers I administer and the dev servers I write code on, aren't at my desk in my cubicle either. No matter whether I'm at my desk or not, I'm "remote" as far as the servers and databases are concerned.
The most important tool for telecommuting is trust between the employer and employee. That can be established along any reasonable line. Even for new people you don't personally know yet, VPN logs and project-tracking software make it easy to tell if work is being done as desired or not.
And I just need to add, don't hold meetings where you have half a dozen or more people in a room talking at a speakerphone with a telecommuter on the other end. You'll just end up sounding like Charlie Brown's teacher to the telecommuter, unless you all have deep, clear voices, inside optimum volume-range for the speakerphone, clear enunciation, no accents, and can 100% refrain from aside-comments and talking at the same time as each other.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 31, 2012 at 1:21 pm
Let me take this a bit further. Where I am working now, people in the office will "telecommute" to local meetings. Since we do have geographically dispersed work force, all of our meetings make use of LiveMeeting and teleconferencing. Some will stay at their desk and "telecommute" to the meeting. Haven't seen it be a problem yet. Could be the culture here.
July 31, 2012 at 3:23 pm
While I do find strong merit to the points and arguments for telecommuting (I did this for a couple years at a previous job and thought it worked well), I was hoping to focus on other aspects of a job posting. Acknowledged; including the telecommuting option will greatly increase the respondents to a job posting in locations such as Idaho Falls, ID. I am working with the powers-that-be to address this option, but if the answer is no, I still have a senior position to fill.
I am truly grateful for the comments and advice I have received thus far. I have worked with several people to rewrite the job posting and hope to have it up shortly. I will repost the link when it is ready for further review.
July 31, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Lynn Pettis (7/31/2012)
Let me take this a bit further. Where I am working now, people in the office will "telecommute" to local meetings. Since we do have geographically dispersed work force, all of our meetings make use of LiveMeeting and teleconferencing. Some will stay at their desk and "telecommute" to the meeting. Haven't seen it be a problem yet. Could be the culture here.
Staying at the desk and "telecommuting" to the meeting is a great option for those meetings where I really have no reason to be there, but have to be there anyway.
At least I can work on my computer, surf the web, post drivel on SSC, check the weather, etc. Just need listen enough to make sure I hear when someone talks to me. "Could you repeat that; there was some noise on the line."
July 31, 2012 at 4:06 pm
Michael Valentine Jones (7/31/2012)
Lynn Pettis (7/31/2012)
Let me take this a bit further. Where I am working now, people in the office will "telecommute" to local meetings. Since we do have geographically dispersed work force, all of our meetings make use of LiveMeeting and teleconferencing. Some will stay at their desk and "telecommute" to the meeting. Haven't seen it be a problem yet. Could be the culture here.Staying at the desk and "telecommuting" to the meeting is a great option for those meetings where I really have no reason to be there, but have to be there anyway.
At least I can work on my computer, surf the web, post drivel on SSC, check the weather, etc. Just need listen enough to make sure I hear when someone talks to me. "Could you repeat that; there was some noise on the line."
+1
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
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