November 20, 2017 at 1:20 pm
Geoff.Sturdy - Monday, November 20, 2017 12:57 AMdrew.allen - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:52 AMGeoff.Sturdy - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 1:32 AMActually this Idea that somehow you have to water down or neuter your own traditions in order not to exclude or offend is a peculiarly Anglo-Saxon one - celebrating Christmas does not invalidate anyone else's belief system except for the one group that is easily offended , White Secular Liberals . This minority group is always offended on behalf of one group or another claiming that celebrating something traditionally western , especially if it is Christian is exclusive. They tried this type of nonsense in the UK a few years ago when Birmingham (UK) city council tried to rename the Christmas period "Winterval" - they backed down after it was clear that it wasn't a very popular move locally . So I may not be attending my company's Christmas party this year , but I know a lot of my Sikh and Hindu colleagues will be .Your basic premise is flawed, so your conclusion is also flawed.Being inclusive in no way waters down or neuters your own tradition.
Drew
So don't address the point I'm making instead make a generic comment about my assumption being "flawed" - I provided a real world example to back up my point so to say there is a flaw in my argument without backing that up is ridiculous, but the dismissive attitude is typical of secular white liberal thinking.
First, I did not make a generic comment. I specifically said that being inclusive in no way waters down or neuters your own tradition. Since your entire argument rides on this faulty assumption, your conclusion is flawed.
Second, you did not provide a real world example. You threw in some red herrings by saying that something was unpopular, which has absolutely no bearing on your point that emphasizing Christianity is not being exclusive and that some of your non-Christian friends weren't bothered by it, which also has no bearing on your point that emphasizing Christianity is not being exclusive.
You're also a hypocrite. You claim that celebrating Christmas doesn't invalidate other religions, but including other religions waters down or neuters (in other words invalidates) Christianity.
Drew
J. Drew Allen
Business Intelligence Analyst
Philadelphia, PA
November 20, 2017 at 4:31 pm
I attend the company Christmas Party for four reasons:
1. The "meeting" beforehand is where they lay out what happened in the previous year and what's coming up for the next year.
2. They generally have some damned good roast beef, shrimp, mashed potatoes and gravy, and some totally awesome desserts.
3. People with a couple of drinks in them tend to spill the beans about things they otherwise might be rather tight lipped about.
4. After all the above has occurred, I don't mind a couple of glasses of Christmas Cheer myself. My favorite mixed drink is a 16 oz glass of chilled water, no ice, and a single shot of a good scotch. It's just enough to kill the bugs in the water and nearly impossible to get drunk on. 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 21, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Actually this Idea that somehow you have to water down or neuter your own traditions in order not to exclude or offend is a peculiarly Anglo-Saxon one - celebrating Christmas does not invalidate anyone else's belief system except for the one group that is easily offended , White Secular Liberals . This minority group is always offended on behalf of one group or another claiming that celebrating something traditionally western , especially if it is Christian is exclusive. They tried this type of nonsense in the UK a few years ago when Birmingham (UK) city council tried to rename the Christmas period "Winterval" - they backed down after it was clear that it wasn't a very popular move locally . So I may not be attending my company's Christmas party this year , but I know a lot of my Sikh and Hindu colleagues will be .
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and a happy festivus to you too!
November 21, 2017 at 6:08 pm
Geoff.Sturdy - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 1:32 AMphonetictalk - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:32 AMbkubicek - Monday, November 13, 2017 9:04 PMNow, I think they have to be labeled Holiday parties so no one is offended. Sometimes people are too easily offended.Using "holiday" instead of Christmas didn't come about because people were offended, but rather because companies wanted to be more inclusive.
If you have a company of 300 people, of which some may not be practicing Christians, and you call it a Christmas party, you're deliberately choosing to ignore the traditions & faith of anyone for whom celebrating Jesus is definitely not part of their beliefs. Now, maybe they don't care. Or do care, but wouldn't say anything. Either way, the inclusive thing to do is not call it a Christmas party. (Especially with many other perfectly acceptable options: holiday party, end of year party, December celebration, etc.)
In the same way, if you have a team of 10 men, and then a woman joins the team, continuing to refer to the team as "Gentlemen" would not be the inclusive thing to do, regardless or not of whether she is offended. Being inclusive is the minimum you can do to make a person feel welcome.
Saying "sometimes people are too easily offended" suggests that you don't like the change and that you blame people who are not like you for forcing the change upon you. It's a privileged position to take, especially since the alternatives don't exclude you (or anyone) in the same way that Christmas does. Having to say "Everyone" instead of "Gentleman" isn't a personal slight, no matter how long "Gentleman" has been the tradition.
I'll agree that sometimes, particularly in the US, things can get silly, where holiday becomes a euphemism for Christmas. But the sentiment behind using the word "holiday" is one I can't object to.
Actually this Idea that somehow you have to water down or neuter your own traditions in order not to exclude or offend is a peculiarly Anglo-Saxon one - celebrating Christmas does not invalidate anyone else's belief system except for the one group that is easily offended , White Secular Liberals . This minority group is always offended on behalf of one group or another claiming that celebrating something traditionally western , especially if it is Christian is exclusive. They tried this type of nonsense in the UK a few years ago when Birmingham (UK) city council tried to rename the Christmas period "Winterval" - they backed down after it was clear that it wasn't a very popular move locally . So I may not be attending my company's Christmas party this year , but I know a lot of my Sikh and Hindu colleagues will be .
I'm a "White Secular Liberal" and I'm not offended; I'm also a cowboy and I'm not stupid - careful with your stereotypes, there, pal.
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