Hiring Heterogeneously

  • You need diversity in background and experience so that peer reviews have meaning. About ten years ago a number of people were made redundant - none had ever met before and worked well together. Subsequently development/support was expanded back to its original staffing levels. However, those employed had all been at school together. It was a difficult era with poor database design and input utilities that did next to no validation. There was endless fire fighting. A change in MD resulted in a cultural change and all of them left of their own violation. However, the damage to cash flow had been done and the company went under.

    In a previous company I had seen a similar thing when promotion became a "family and friends" scheme and people were promoted beyond their own ability! The company survives to this day much reduced in size. In the process only one of the clique was not axed!

  • Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Monday, July 22, 2013 9:19 AM

    cksid (7/22/2013)


    It can be frustrating to be the new person who comes in with new ideas and sees antiquated ways that can be changed. When you ask 'Why do you do it this way, when this way is faster, less time...? and prove that it is faster/better, you get the same answer again and again 'We've always done it this way.' and they won't change!Christy

    the trick here is to give reasons why, and show how others have already thought of these things. I've learned to appreciate the new person re-examining the problem, and if they can prove it's better, that's good. However by the same token, I have to be able to justify the current way to keep doing it.

    There needs to be a balance between the two positions. The new person may see opportunities that others are missing, but the new person may also not fully comprehend the side effects or the changes, or have a good gut estimate what will work in the real world. 
    I've seen some ideas (including my own) that looked good in naive theory but not in practice.

    "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not"

    ...

    -- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --

  • Nancy.Balcer - Wednesday, July 24, 2013 4:52 PM

    Companies run lean, and it seems to me it's more often than not--difficult for analysts to get beyond the simple everyday operational tasks, and take the time to think about who they are working with and what strengths members bring. If you ask me, sad as it is to say, it's everyman for himself, and good luck with getting a sense of teamwork (at least in the world of IT). Thank God for Google, because it is the only constant source of diverse ideas. :unsure:Sorry to sound so fatalistic, but I've been in some really crappy departments.

    After 4 years, I'm curious.  How's it going now?

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.


    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Jeff Moden - Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:08 PM

    Nancy.Balcer - Wednesday, July 24, 2013 4:52 PM

    Companies run lean, and it seems to me it's more often than not--difficult for analysts to get beyond the simple everyday operational tasks, and take the time to think about who they are working with and what strengths members bring. If you ask me, sad as it is to say, it's everyman for himself, and good luck with getting a sense of teamwork (at least in the world of IT). Thank God for Google, because it is the only constant source of diverse ideas. :unsure:Sorry to sound so fatalistic, but I've been in some really crappy departments.

    After 4 years, I'm curious.  How's it going now?

    Most stories that begin like hers have predictable endings. I hope she has since moved on to greener pasture.  :ermm:

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • This is a timely rerun of this editorial, particularly with the events that have taken place in Charlottesville recently.  We have to understand the difference between 

    • Diversity

    • Inclusivity - Removal of barriers that prevent participation


    The latter can be a barrier to the former.
    There are many facets to diversity, some of which are easy to overlook.  I've certainly found it true that a diverse set of people bring a variety of viewpoints and with it a range of solutions that I probably would not have considered otherwise.  I also think it is wise to consider the diversity of your customers.  If you have a customer who has facets of diversity different from you, do you understand that customer and their needs in relation to the goods or service you are paid to offer?

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

  • Perhaps others have had different experiences, but from I've seen over the past 25 years, the IT industry actually tends to have more diverse teams than other industries, especially since around 2000. For example, when I stand up at my desk and look around at the two hundred people I share an open office space with, I see more diversity than what I see in financial services, executive level corporate management, religion, media, education, or even government. It seems to me that other industries tend to cluster more based on ethnicity, gender, and age more so than IT. The thing about IT (at least for the better IT shops) is that it's all about skill-sets, teamwork, and deliverables; so more superficial things like demographics and political affiliation matter less.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • David.Poole - Thursday, August 17, 2017 4:03 AM

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

    It strikes me as odd that anyone should imagine that a saying that dates from 11th century German is best understood as meaning some bizarre interpretation that dates from pretty close to the end of the 20th century (1994) or that that such an interpretation is either "what it actually means" or even "the full saying".

    Tom

  • TomThomson - Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:09 PM

    David.Poole - Thursday, August 17, 2017 4:03 AM

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

    It strikes me as odd that anyone should imagine that a saying that dates from 11th century German is best understood as meaning some bizarre interpretation that dates from pretty close to the end of the 20th century (1994) or that that such an interpretation is either "what it actually means" or even "the full saying".

    Go on then Tom, don't leave it there.  Fill in the blanks

  • TomThomson - Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:09 PM

    David.Poole - Thursday, August 17, 2017 4:03 AM

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

    It strikes me as odd that anyone should imagine that a saying that dates from 11th century German is best understood as meaning some bizarre interpretation that dates from pretty close to the end of the 20th century (1994) or that that such an interpretation is either "what it actually means" or even "the full saying".

    Heh... that's about the same time when the term Geek went from bad to good and the term Hacker went from good to bad.

    I wonder how many people actually know what a Geek is?  I imagine they'd hurl on the spot if someone told them.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.


    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Jeff Moden - Monday, August 21, 2017 12:22 AM

    TomThomson - Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:09 PM

    David.Poole - Thursday, August 17, 2017 4:03 AM

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

    It strikes me as odd that anyone should imagine that a saying that dates from 11th century German is best understood as meaning some bizarre interpretation that dates from pretty close to the end of the 20th century (1994) or that that such an interpretation is either "what it actually means" or even "the full saying".

    Heh... that's about the same time when the term Geek went from bad to good and the term Hacker went from good to bad.

    I wonder how many people actually know what a Geek is?  I imagine they'd hurl on the spot if someone told them.

    I would be interested in your "opinion" of what geek really means.  I say opinion, simply because I don't know a better term to use, but I am not being critical of you or your interpretation in any way.  This isn't the kind of thing google does very well unless you know exactly what term to search on.

    So if you would please forgive my choice of words and provide an education as to its meaning, I would be grateful..

    Dave

  • djackson 22568 - Monday, August 21, 2017 8:50 AM

    Jeff Moden - Monday, August 21, 2017 12:22 AM

    TomThomson - Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:09 PM

    David.Poole - Thursday, August 17, 2017 4:03 AM

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

    It strikes me as odd that anyone should imagine that a saying that dates from 11th century German is best understood as meaning some bizarre interpretation that dates from pretty close to the end of the 20th century (1994) or that that such an interpretation is either "what it actually means" or even "the full saying".

    Heh... that's about the same time when the term Geek went from bad to good and the term Hacker went from good to bad.

    I wonder how many people actually know what a Geek is?  I imagine they'd hurl on the spot if someone told them.

    I would be interested in your "opinion" of what geek really means.  I say opinion, simply because I don't know a better term to use, but I am not being critical of you or your interpretation in any way.  This isn't the kind of thing google does very well unless you know exactly what term to search on.

    So if you would please forgive my choice of words and provide an education as to its meaning, I would be grateful..

    http://www.mostly-harmless.de/crllstlk.htm
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=geek

    I will never use the term data munging again.

  • David.Poole - Monday, August 21, 2017 9:00 AM

    djackson 22568 - Monday, August 21, 2017 8:50 AM

    Jeff Moden - Monday, August 21, 2017 12:22 AM

    TomThomson - Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:09 PM

    David.Poole - Thursday, August 17, 2017 4:03 AM

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

    It strikes me as odd that anyone should imagine that a saying that dates from 11th century German is best understood as meaning some bizarre interpretation that dates from pretty close to the end of the 20th century (1994) or that that such an interpretation is either "what it actually means" or even "the full saying".

    Heh... that's about the same time when the term Geek went from bad to good and the term Hacker went from good to bad.

    I wonder how many people actually know what a Geek is?  I imagine they'd hurl on the spot if someone told them.

    I would be interested in your "opinion" of what geek really means.  I say opinion, simply because I don't know a better term to use, but I am not being critical of you or your interpretation in any way.  This isn't the kind of thing google does very well unless you know exactly what term to search on.

    So if you would please forgive my choice of words and provide an education as to its meaning, I would be grateful..

    http://www.mostly-harmless.de/crllstlk.htm
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=geek

    I will never use the term data munging again.

    The original (1870s? perhaps earlier?) meaning of Geek was distinctly depreciative: a person who was stupid, worthless, offensive fool.  By about 1920 it was (still decidedly depreciative and) also being used to mean the lowest sort of person in the carny trade, who assisted a sideshow at a circus or fair, entertaiing the asudience by biting off the heads of chickens and/or lizards and/or other creatures too void(0).  In the 1950s (perhaps now a little less depreciative) it came to mean a socially inept person with an  obseson for some subject or activity in which most people had no interest, but it still was used with the previous meanings (which I guess is the "old" meaning Jeff was referring to).  In the early 1980s it began also to be used to mean a person who was extremely knowledgeable abut and interested in computer (and related) technology without being socially inept (so definitely not depreciative) and by the end of the century had become generalised to refer to other technologies or sciences or art, not just computer stuff (but it could still be used in any of the older meanings too) and the term "geek chic" had been coined to describe the way geeks (in the 4th sense) dressed - eg pretentious fake-beatnik sunglasses were geek chic according to the Baltimore Evening Sun (or perhaps just to one of its journalists).

    Tom

  • David Poole: Go on then Tom, don't leave it there.  Fill in the blanks

    Blanks?   Well, the idiom means what just about everyone knows it means.

    By the time I was 20 years old  I had many instances of "blood is thicker than water" translated into French and most of them had either "la famille passe avant tout" or "la voix du sang est la plus forte" (there were also some literal translations: "le sang est plus épais que l'eau" (which I imagine were done by people wh'd never learnt not to translate idioms word for word, because I've never heard that used in French). And I had also seen those French phrases translated as "family comes first" or "blood is thicker than water".   So the meaning commonly assumed today was clearly the actual meaning then.  On the other hand, the phrase "the covenant of blood is thicker than the water of the womb" seems to have originated in 1994, when I was 50 years old, so it doen't seem to be the original version, but of course some people have jumped on it and all sorts of justification for it have been invented (such s "the blood of the covenant" means the blood spillt or risked in battle, so that   comrades in battle come before family).  The earliest uses I know of "blood is thicker than water" in modern English all have Scottish origin; they are by Scott (in 1815), Ray/Belfour (in 1813), and Ramsay (1737).  And of course "blood is thicker than water" iis generally translated as "Is luaithe a leanabh fhéin a bhaisteas an sagart" is commonly translated to/from "family comes first" or "blood is thicker than water" so it seems obvious from that that the English phrases must have the traditional pro-kinship meaning..  According to wikipedia (not neccessarily a reliable source unless the rubbish edit-wars of the past haven't continued into the present) variants of it occurred in Early Middle English (which got it from German sources) and in those days it meant "Kin comes first".

    Tom

  • djackson 22568 - Monday, August 21, 2017 8:50 AM

    Jeff Moden - Monday, August 21, 2017 12:22 AM

    TomThomson - Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:09 PM

    David.Poole - Thursday, August 17, 2017 4:03 AM

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

    It strikes me as odd that anyone should imagine that a saying that dates from 11th century German is best understood as meaning some bizarre interpretation that dates from pretty close to the end of the 20th century (1994) or that that such an interpretation is either "what it actually means" or even "the full saying".

    Heh... that's about the same time when the term Geek went from bad to good and the term Hacker went from good to bad.

    I wonder how many people actually know what a Geek is?  I imagine they'd hurl on the spot if someone told them.

    I would be interested in your "opinion" of what geek really means.  I say opinion, simply because I don't know a better term to use, but I am not being critical of you or your interpretation in any way.  This isn't the kind of thing google does very well unless you know exactly what term to search on.

    So if you would please forgive my choice of words and provide an education as to its meaning, I would be grateful..

    This link actually traces the "history" of the word's meaning in it's three definitions.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/geek

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.


    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • David.Poole - Thursday, August 17, 2017 4:03 AM

    This is a timely rerun of this editorial, particularly with the events that have taken place in Charlottesville recently.  We have to understand the difference between 

    • Diversity

    • Inclusivity - Removal of barriers that prevent participation


    The latter can be a barrier to the former.
    There are many facets to diversity, some of which are easy to overlook.  I've certainly found it true that a diverse set of people bring a variety of viewpoints and with it a range of solutions that I probably would not have considered otherwise.  I also think it is wise to consider the diversity of your customers.  If you have a customer who has facets of diversity different from you, do you understand that customer and their needs in relation to the goods or service you are paid to offer?

    The saying "Blood is thicker than water" is a contraction of a saying and consequently is often taken to mean the precise opposite of what it actually means.  the full saying is something like "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".  If you put a diverse team together with a common goal then their diversity will quickly become a non-issue.  To my mind this is an effective diversity policy.

    I have twice been in companies that encountered problems by basing hiring decisions on "family and friends" first. In one company the person should have been axed quickly but because he was an old chum of the MD he hung around for a couple of years. When the MD left he jumped ship a couple of weeks later missing the redundancy payment the new MD was planning. Hiring has to be based on ability!

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