July 29, 2015 at 8:12 am
Sioban Krzywicki (7/29/2015)
GeorgeCopeland (7/29/2015)
I have been on a lot of development teams. On every single one, the culture was this: if you can't program, we will eat you alive.And that's too bad. It sets up competition and rivalry. It is the antithesis of "fitting in" and working together. I see it a lot too and I think it gives the lie to the whole "fitting in" thing.
Why not train and mentor instead of tearing each other down. You get a much better team that way in a number of ways.
No, it doesn't.
You can't train and mentor some people. You can't force top performers to "like" employees who have no business programming. If you don't have the skills and capabilities (can't program) nothing anyone does will change that. George did not say "needs guidance as a programmer", he said can't program.
Examples: Nurses are smart, they can't program. Doctors are smart, they can't program. Programmers are smart, they can't conduct surgery. Pilots are smart, they can't defend a lawsuit. Uh wait, I don't want to suggest lawyers are smart 🙂
The point is that a lot of smart people can't do what others do. Infrequently there are people who change careers and are very capable, but not everyone can be a nurse, nor a doctor, nor a pilot.
Speaking of smart pilots versus social ones - I prefer the pilot that goes home after work to hold his kids, not the one who has been out "socializing" all night with his co-pilot. I'll let someone else enjoy that crash landing.
Dave
July 29, 2015 at 8:15 am
Sioban Krzywicki (7/29/2015)
I'm just saying, if you want bonding, good mentoring is the way to do it. And each of us couldn't program at one point.
I'm just saying, all we want and all the client wants is software that works. If you can produce that, we don't care if you are a brain in a box.
July 29, 2015 at 8:30 am
djackson 22568 (7/29/2015)
Sioban Krzywicki (7/29/2015)
GeorgeCopeland (7/29/2015)
I have been on a lot of development teams. On every single one, the culture was this: if you can't program, we will eat you alive.And that's too bad. It sets up competition and rivalry. It is the antithesis of "fitting in" and working together. I see it a lot too and I think it gives the lie to the whole "fitting in" thing.
Why not train and mentor instead of tearing each other down. You get a much better team that way in a number of ways.
No, it doesn't.
You can't train and mentor some people. You can't force top performers to "like" employees who have no business programming. If you don't have the skills and capabilities (can't program) nothing anyone does will change that. George did not say "needs guidance as a programmer", he said can't program.
Examples: Nurses are smart, they can't program. Doctors are smart, they can't program. Programmers are smart, they can't conduct surgery. Pilots are smart, they can't defend a lawsuit. Uh wait, I don't want to suggest lawyers are smart 🙂
The point is that a lot of smart people can't do what others do. Infrequently there are people who change careers and are very capable, but not everyone can be a nurse, nor a doctor, nor a pilot.
Speaking of smart pilots versus social ones - I prefer the pilot that goes home after work to hold his kids, not the one who has been out "socializing" all night with his co-pilot. I'll let someone else enjoy that crash landing.
If someone gets on the team who literally can't program, you have bigger problems in your hiring process than someone who can "fit in".
And if someone on the team literally can't program, the solution is to fire them, not for the rest of the team to "eat them alive".
The "top performers" thing is toxic. It too sets up unhealthy rivalry and competition within a team. It creates egos that are frequently unwarranted and causes people to be bad at working together.
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July 29, 2015 at 8:35 am
If you are hiring for a programmer job the priorities should be to get a competent and emotionally stable person. I think finding someone who can drink with you after hours is irrelevant. I've been on teams where there is a clique and others were marginalized. It all seemed very childish to me.
The three main types/groups of people in the U.S. are traditional, modern, and post modern. These three groups dislike/hate each other at a fundamental philosophical level (pre-rational, rational, post-rational). A small department or project team benefits by having everyone at the same level like siblings. Larger teams and departments are more like extended families and allow for people to be at different levels of development. The three levels each have different strengths and viewpoints and all members have something to offer larger projects and systems.
July 29, 2015 at 8:40 am
When your top performers quit your team, I will be glad to take them.
July 29, 2015 at 8:58 am
... culture includes much more than our schedule of activities outside of work. It includes our attitude towards work, towards building software, towards each other.
Another consideration is the differences between national cultures; how well might a potential employee adapt to an alien one?
I've watched Americans adjusting to working in Britain, and Britons adjusting to working in the US. Although individual personality and attitude strongly influence the degree of success an employee may have in these situations, there is still the need to learn how to operate in a new national culture. For example, Americans express their opinions in a very different manner than do Britons, which can have (and in my experience, have had) some serious repercussions on a mixed team.
If I'm building a development team in the US, I'll try hiring people who have at least some experience, and a good comfort level, working in American business environments, given that other relevant abilities and experiences are fairly equal. My practise in the UK would be similar in seeking out those who know their way around British workplace environments.
July 29, 2015 at 9:11 am
Hmm... I've found that what in America in many cases is considered praise worthy for taking the initiative without explicit instructions or expressing an opinion even it differences from your superior is often considered disrespectful, presumptuous and rude in a lot of other cultures. I guess there's value in both ways of seeing things depending on the employee and the situation.
And that's too bad. It sets up competition and rivalry. It is the antithesis of "fitting in" and working together. I see it a lot too and I think it gives the lie to the whole "fitting in" thing.
Why not train and mentor instead of tearing each other down. You get a much better team that way in a number of ways.
On the other hand noone likes feeling like they're carrying someone else's slack.
July 29, 2015 at 9:14 am
Hiring for the culture is just about normal these days. But I have been hired on several occasions to change the culture.
In one case the work attitude of the team was so laid back that nothing was getting done. Needless to say I was not appreciated as the manager by the leads assigned to me.
In an other case the team had zero credibility with upper management because one of the people had convinced the team they did not need to meet the expectations of upper management. The team became loud in complaining about the changes I made to processes. So loud in fact that an organizational intervention was requested. At the outset of the intervention meeting, I was sent out so the Organization Developer consultant could tell the team that I had credibility with upper management and they did not, hence they were on the bubble not me.
Although I was successful in both positions I got out of management and went back to programming to get away from the politics of such situations. That was the best decision I have made career wise.
July 29, 2015 at 9:25 am
I pretty much refuse to engage anybody from work outside of work. Amazingly I get 'Exceeds Expectations' on all of my reviews in all categories. I work hard and treat everyone fairly and am willing to speak harsh truths (with tact usually). Any company that thinks it's important for me to spend time outside of work with coworkers is flat out wrong. If they want to pay me that's another thing.
And finally many of these coworkers I won't spend time with outside of work consider me a friend (their words). I also don't eat any of the treats people bring (except fruit) and won't eat the company food at our lunches unless it's very healthy. So stick in the mud I might be but great employee I am (or try to be).
July 29, 2015 at 9:57 am
I've worked for large organizations that were saturated in "corporate culture". Thanks to social media, this kind of thing is becomming more common. Also small start-up companys preoccupy themselves with culture and image as well, although probably at a more superficial level, more for the sake of publicity and getting their brand mentioned in the media.
Honestly, however, I'd rather not have my email inbox spammed with a dozen daily invitations to volunteer at a pet shelter or reminders to take some sensitivity training course. It becomes annoying. I'm a responsible adult and a professional; just give me an interesting project to work on.
Privately owned, medium sized IT organizations... they're not so much into this type of thing. They tend to be very focussed and product oriented. I'm sure management at these companies wish they could focus more on culture, but they're just too damn busy building solutions and innovating. Honestly, that's my preferred environment to work in.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 29, 2015 at 10:11 am
Very insightful analysis about medium-sized entities, Eric. Being productive in a large organization, I think that is a skill set all on its own. I enjoy the challenge of it, and after all, somebody has to work at these places.
July 29, 2015 at 10:32 am
I think I'm a cultural misfit. I've been friends to this day with a group that I worked with at a game company 30 years ago and I was there for one year. And I'll regularly go to lunch with co-workers. But doing something after work with my co-workers hasn't been much of a thing since that game company job.
I don't smoke, I don't drink (much) or do drugs, I don't party where smoking and drinking are the main activities. And these are typical activities in my area as there's not much to do here. So I spend time with my wife and dog and hang out with gamers and photographers. Most of my friendships are kept current via email and the phone since I'm 500-600+ miles from my friends.
I guess I would need to acquire some vices that are destructive to my health, which already has plenty of problems, if I wanted to be more sociable.
I think I'll remain a misfit. New hires don't need to immediately slide in and be comfortable with the existing social climate in the work place, but neither should they be at right angles to what's already in place.
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July 29, 2015 at 11:28 am
GeorgeCopeland (7/29/2015)
Very insightful analysis about medium-sized entities, Eric. Being productive in a large organization, I think that is a skill set all on its own. I enjoy the challenge of it, and after all, somebody has to work at these places.
Medium sized privately owned companies innovate.
Large publicly owned companies or government agencies integrate.
Small companies don't know what they're going to be doing from one day to the next.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 29, 2015 at 11:32 am
Eric M Russell (7/29/2015)
I've worked for large organizations that were saturated in "corporate culture". Thanks to social media, this kind of thing is becomming more common. Also small start-up companys preoccupy themselves with culture and image as well, although probably at a more superficial level, more for the sake of publicity and getting their brand mentioned in the media.Honestly, however, I'd rather not have my email inbox spammed with a dozen daily invitations to volunteer at a pet shelter or reminders to take some sensitivity training course. It becomes annoying. I'm a responsible adult and a professional; just give me an interesting project to work on.
Privately owned, medium sized IT organizations... they're not so much into this type of thing. They tend to be very focussed and product oriented. I'm sure management at these companies wish they could focus more on culture, but they're just too damn busy building solutions and innovating. Honestly, that's my preferred environment to work in.
What he said!
Dave
July 29, 2015 at 11:55 am
below86 (7/29/2015)
Not to be to political, but people 'hired' George W. Bush because 'He was someone I could see having a beer with'. That turned out to be a horrible 'hire'.
Not to stay political, but Obama is better??? :sick:
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