July 26, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item High End or Low End
July 27, 2010 at 2:25 am
Maybe all that's needed to organise is to make clear what level a course / event is aimed at using simple 3 step numbers.
SQL Bits (http://sqlbits.com/information/event6/PublicSessions.aspx Sessions from 6th event) uses a simple 100, 200, 300 and 400.
100 being the most basic and 400 being special stuff.
This works really well and makes planning the attendance of the event quite easy.
July 27, 2010 at 4:15 am
For those who are interested in the intro sessions or in the advanced sessions:
- What specific questions do you have that could be answered in a presentation?
- What specific topics would interest you?
- What format is most interesting? Does it have to be a formal presentation?
I am definitely interested in your thoughts.
July 27, 2010 at 7:07 am
I've worked with a lot of conference organizers in the Oracle user group community and they have similar problems
Most of them are pay-to-attend, unlike the local Microsoft code camps and sql saturdays.
With the pay-to-attend conferences, there is a greater need for "100% buzzword compliance" in the list of presentations than in the smaller, free conferences in the MS world.
Conference organizers often use the following faulty equation:
"success of topic = number of attendees at topic"
There's something to be said for that, but it tends to water down the technical content to only include introductions to new topics.
At any given sql saturday or code camp, there will be a very limited number of people prepared to deal with a high level topic in depth. However, they will be VERY HAPPY to attend that one topic, and will consider the trip worthwhile just for that one session.
I, for one, really appreciate in depth, production-ready discussions. What do I mean about "production ready"? I don't mean "list of features" presentations. Let's take SSIS for example. Don't give me a list of features at random, in "most exciting first" order. Show me how to assemble the parts to do a common, complex, real-world task. Show how to do error handling so it's easy for a non-programmer to diagnose the problems that are encountered. Point out the limitations of the product that you encountered as you did this, so I'll understand its limitations too.
For another example, show me how to build a high-speed, high-volume data entry screen using good object-oriented code. Make it a real screen, with all the features working together. Most of the books out there show how to do sorting, paging, inserts, updates and deletes using a gridview. They show how to use each feature in isolation, but don't show how to use them all together, in a coherent whole with a top-quality user interface. (While you are at it, make sure it's multi-user safe, because 99% of the articles and books I see that show sample code aren't!) Some of those features interact with one another in very unpleasant ways. Show how you would integrate context-sensitive help into that form in a way that a non-programmer could update the help text.
Hope that's helpful!
July 27, 2010 at 7:15 am
I'm all in favor of trying a focuses SQLSaturday on a narrow range of topics or skill levels (Dallas is doing in with BI), with the caveat that you have to consider the impact on attendance and then from there on sponsors. Focus on TSQL and you could lose a lot of sponsors. Of course, you don't have to have sponsors, but you do have to find a way to cover the incidental costs - donations, money left over from a bigger event, charging attendees for lunc (but not admission).
As a beginner I never minded going to deeper topics, I just appreciate a little introduction - spend 2 minutes of the 45-60 minutes putting it in perspective. Often we'll have attendees deep in one area that are brand new to another, so that same problem/approach applies.
As a guy that builds the schedule here and there, we try for diversity of speakers, topics, and skill levels, and given more than a couple of rooms, I'm always eager to take some niche topics that might attract 7 people. But I'm constrained by what is submitted, and most people submit topics they are working with and are passionate about. Not an easy puzzle to solve.
July 27, 2010 at 7:36 am
Excellent editorial and discussion!
SQL Saturday is successful. The model works, everyone wins, and who can argue with the results? There are a couple other models out there that serve those who desire the deep-dive / narrowly-focused event: PASS (and SQL Saturday) pre-/post-cons come to mind, as do FireStarter events.
RichmondSQL invited Adam Machanic to speak in 2009. I was very impressed when he sent me a Word doc with all the speaker and presentation information you could ever use. I started a similar document, and I started cataloging presentations.
I've been meaning to write about developing a portfolio of presentations for a while. Thanks for the reminder Steve!
:{>
Andy Leonard, Chief Data Engineer, Enterprise Data & Analytics
July 27, 2010 at 8:03 am
Thats the challenge that is faced at a conference there are always too many sessions that you want to attend. This means that if you have intro sessions they are often not well attended because people want to attend other sessions. What I think it needs is for some of the name speakers to do the intro stuff, that way they get more focus and hopefully attendance.
I thnk the SQLSaturday model its easier to do more intro sessions because there are more sessions run concurrently, but its definitely something we are trying to address with at SQLBits.
Problem with techie people is they like shiny toys that go fast, so if its new or about performance then its popular.
Simon Sabin
SQL Server MVP
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/simons
July 27, 2010 at 8:06 am
Money definitely changes things. If attendees pay for content, not only do they want it to be top notch presenters but they want primarily buzz word topics. Nothing wrong with new and exciting, but it does make it harder to add 'TSQL 101' to the agenda.
July 27, 2010 at 8:12 am
Andy Warren (7/27/2010)
... it does make it harder to add 'TSQL 101' to the agenda.
True. But I wonder why? The most-attended meeting at RichmondSQL in the first couple years of operation was one on T-SQL syntax: T-SQL 101. I wonder if we (the organizers and advertisers) are partially to blame. Advertising the shiny/new is easy and nearly knee-jerk. Are we also advertising the introductory sessions?
Not fussing here - it's understandable. Is it self-fulfilling? Thoughts?
Andy
Andy Leonard, Chief Data Engineer, Enterprise Data & Analytics
July 27, 2010 at 9:32 am
Andy, for me here in Orlando at SQLSaturday it's all about diversity. Might not be true across the board, just as there seems to be at times a push for 'big names' rather than leveraging those of us that are lesser known but still capable. When we advertise, we just push the entire schedule, everyone sees something different in it, though I'll admit to calling out a 'big name' or two as a marketing prop.
The number of beginners far outweights the experts, huge growth, lots of turnover, and that is reflected in the attendees at the events (the local ones anyway).
It comes back to diversity is limited to what is submitted, so the question is really 'how we do drive speakers to submit more of x type session, where x might be beginner? Maybe it's a simple to ask anyone submitting an abstract to also submit one beginner level session so we have stuff to choose from?
July 27, 2010 at 9:40 am
Or ask everyone that submits a high level session to submit a beginner level one on the same topic.
July 27, 2010 at 10:18 am
I think that having people offer a high level and a beginner is a great way to go. Those going to the 100 level are really the ones that need people with the years of experience. If they can start off with a good foundation they have the best chance of success.
July 27, 2010 at 10:45 am
With 100 being the introduction, 200 basic, 300 intermediate and 400 advanced as a measure I like to go at times to the 400 level just to blow my mind. Helps to be humble and find something new to learn.
Then again a good basic lesson (one of the best I have seen was on SQLBits II with Tony Rogerson) is worth a lot. That session was the last one of the day (with some others) but it was packed. People were all over the room, some standing, some sitting on the floor.
Tony's stuff was simple but interesting and the examples fit well. His hook: Show some interesting stuff that is normally not used day in day out. Then show how it performs and simply leave all the people with a few ideas how to improve things in their coding and use of SQL.
July 27, 2010 at 11:00 am
Excellent suggestions all around - especially Steve's on having everyone submit beginner's sessions.
Andy, I wasn't criticizing (I hope and don't think you took it that way.) If I was criticizing, I would lump myself in there as well. I know I push big names when we publicize events in Richmond.
One of our most-well-attended tracks at Richmond Code Camp has been a Beginner's track. I presented my Database Design for Developers session in May as part of it, and it went over very well.
:{> Andy
Andy Leonard, Chief Data Engineer, Enterprise Data & Analytics
July 27, 2010 at 11:19 am
My first and so far only SQL Saturday was this past April in NYC. I thought it was outstanding! There was a nice range of topics across a nice range of skill levels. Each session was color coded to give an indication of the skill level being presented. My biggest problem was not being able to take notes fast enough, because these sessions covered a lot of ground.
The only suggestion I could make, other than more...more...more, is to give a little more detail about the contents of each session to the participants. There were a couple of times during the day when I had a hard time deciding on which session to attend and would have appreciated a little more information to help me decide.
The NYC event was right on the mark for me. I would do it again in a heartbeat even though the travel time made it a very long day. Some of the ideas I see here in this forum would be a nice addition, but what is being done now really works.
PS. Andy Leonard, I see your posts here in this forum. I attended one and a half of your sessions that day and your presentations were worth the entire day. I wish I had seen the first half of the session I missed. Thanks for your knowledge, skill, and presentation ability.
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