January 20, 2010 at 8:19 am
Thank You, I needed to be assured this morning that world is not completley gone crazy, there are people who think about "Helping other and being Helped at the same time". I had been studying and practicing Access, Databases, Data Modeling, SQL, SQL Development, SQL Servers' capabilities, through books, online videos and audios for the last two years, I have found it really helps to understand and enhanced your own skills, when you are trying to explain and show to others.
Thanks again... a wonderful editorial..
January 20, 2010 at 8:55 am
Just to put another spin on the subject that was raised about how people should not be providing free advice on a forum during work hours. My boss expects us to spend time doing "Training and Development" and that encompasses following/responding to forum issues. Of course, the time spent on this activity would need to be within reason, but there is an understanding that activities like this are key to our development. Again, just adding a different angle to a very valid point.
Lisa
January 20, 2010 at 9:14 am
LSAdvantage (1/20/2010)
Just to put another spin on the subject that was raised about how people should not be providing free advice on a forum during work hours. My boss expects us to spend time doing "Training and Development" and that encompasses following/responding to forum issues. Of course, the time spent on this activity would need to be within reason, but there is an understanding that activities like this are key to our development. Again, just adding a different angle to a very valid point.Lisa
Wow! Your boss lets you spend working hours answering questions on forums like this and you get paid for this as well? Man! Where do I sign up for that kind of work? 🙂
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 20, 2010 at 9:21 am
talltop-969015 (1/20/2010)
LSAdvantage (1/20/2010)
Just to put another spin on the subject that was raised about how people should not be providing free advice on a forum during work hours. My boss expects us to spend time doing "Training and Development" and that encompasses following/responding to forum issues. Of course, the time spent on this activity would need to be within reason, but there is an understanding that activities like this are key to our development. Again, just adding a different angle to a very valid point.Lisa
Wow! Your boss lets you spend working hours answering questions on forums like this and you get paid for this as well? Man! Where do I sign up for that kind of work? 🙂
Yeah...it is a pretty sweet gig here. And we get to work from home to boot...... OK, back to work now!! 😀
January 20, 2010 at 9:25 am
My previous boss expected me to spend time (within reason) on the forums. He considered it an investment, His reasoning was that it was 'free' training for me (training that didn't have to come out of his training budget) and also, if I saw problems on the forum then if we encountered them in our environment I'd be able to fix them way faster than I would if I hadn't seen them on the forums.
I think that he also liked that didn't ask for (demand) formal training courses as many of the others did. Personally I find them a waste of time.
These days I'm a consultant, hence no fixed hours. If I spend 5 hours on the forums one day it's 5 hours that I won't get paid for and, if there's work that needs doing, it's 5 hours that I'll have to make up somehow.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 20, 2010 at 9:26 am
jswong05 (1/20/2010)
That is exactly the message we need in the U. S. of A. Not just to technical people, also to the entire company from CEO to clerk, who work with technical people. "I am not technical" is not a good excuse in the land of USA, no matter you are a manager.
Shouldn't be just in the USA, but everywhere. SSC is a worlwide community of SQL Server Professionals, and should be a model of how others should work.
January 20, 2010 at 9:29 am
LSAdvantage (1/20/2010)
talltop-969015 (1/20/2010)
LSAdvantage (1/20/2010)
Just to put another spin on the subject that was raised about how people should not be providing free advice on a forum during work hours. My boss expects us to spend time doing "Training and Development" and that encompasses following/responding to forum issues. Of course, the time spent on this activity would need to be within reason, but there is an understanding that activities like this are key to our development. Again, just adding a different angle to a very valid point.Lisa
Wow! Your boss lets you spend working hours answering questions on forums like this and you get paid for this as well? Man! Where do I sign up for that kind of work? 🙂
Yeah...it is a pretty sweet gig here. And we get to work from home to boot...... OK, back to work now!! 😀
I'd like the work from home part, sign me up!
January 20, 2010 at 9:48 am
You are assuming that I am working form home. WRONG! I am off today. But that is a very sweet deal. Are you guys hiring? 🙂
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 20, 2010 at 9:51 am
"...when you spend time helping others, you also improve your own skills."
To go off on a bit of a tangent:
This is why the one-room schoolhouse is a superior model for education: the older kids solidify their knowledge as they pass it on to the younger. I also believe that this segregation based on age only adds to the age discrimination problem in our society. But, that's another tangent!
January 20, 2010 at 10:53 am
David Korb (1/20/2010)
"...when you spend time helping others, you also improve your own skills."To go off on a bit of a tangent:
This is why the one-room schoolhouse is a superior model for education: the older kids solidify their knowledge as they pass it on to the younger. I also believe that this segregation based on age only adds to the age discrimination problem in our society. But, that's another tangent!
Interesting, I'd be curious how this could be implemented in public ed. But, you're right, this is another tangent that belongs in a different forum.
January 20, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Hi, folks. I'm back online, on my late lunch hour this time. I appreciate the comments about my thoughts on 'company time'. I agree that we all expect and enjoy a certain degree of flexibility due to the historically long hours we all have. Don't misunderstand, I also actively search and read online for solutions to issues that we have.
It's just that over months and months of watching some individuals work on forums and from hearing phone calls from a person's outside clients ( we're all contractors ) instead of participating here, I am amazed.
I still believe in delivering MORE than is expected and sleeping well at night.
January 20, 2010 at 1:09 pm
I couldn't agree more with the concept and practising it among friends and community. Must add a word of caution based on experience when it comes to practising this at work. At work your knowledge is your asset, that is what many technical people are paid for. Personally I have been in two places where I trained programmers from grounds up - from teaching them normalisation rules to doing database code troubleshooting. They were great learners and i learnt teaching them too but guess what happened - in a few months they replaced me with them. I dont believe one can pass on 'experience' so easily and they lost many things i brought to the table by way of that - but these were not companies who cared as much about excellence as they did about getting work done in a mundane way which one can learn by 'how tos'. So again a word of caution about those people who are too eager and come to you to learn and even more caution if management wants you to train them, that is all.
January 20, 2010 at 1:25 pm
The flip side to that coin is thinking you are indispensable by not passing on knowledge to coworkers and less experienced team members. By passing on your knowledge you are showing you are team player. Hording your knowledge shows just the opposite. And trust me, no one is indispensable. It may hurt the company to lose the knowledge and experience you have, but it can be replaced over time as others learn what you already knew. It may take time, but it will occur.
Edit: Situation that comes to mind isn't that I horded information or knowledge, it is more that certain people higher up didn't appreciate my abilities and it resulted in their loss of 11 years of detailed experience and knowledge of a core system.
January 20, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Hi Lynn, I didnt think i was..who you are in an organisation is a combo of what you think and what their values are. I was in a position where i needed the job, not that i would not find any other but for other reasons. I didnt think twice about training these guys and they used them against me. I have to say being a very value oriented person in an organisation that is very cut throat and opportunistic is more than likely to work against you than for you. In simple terms the values you have about sharing knowledge have to be practised from top to bottom and not just one or two people.Survival skills are as important as values and do not necessarily make an individual mean especially when the environemnt requires them.
January 20, 2010 at 1:41 pm
dma-669038 (1/20/2010)
I couldn't agree more with the concept and practising it among friends and community. Must add a word of caution based on experience when it comes to practising this at work. At work your knowledge is your asset, that is what many technical people are paid for. Personally I have been in two places where I trained programmers from grounds up - from teaching them normalisation rules to doing database code troubleshooting. They were great learners and i learnt teaching them too but guess what happened - in a few months they replaced me with them. I dont believe one can pass on 'experience' so easily and they lost many things i brought to the table by way of that - but these were not companies who cared as much about excellence as they did about getting work done in a mundane way which one can learn by 'how tos'. So again a word of caution about those people who are too eager and come to you to learn and even more caution if management wants you to train them, that is all.
I can see your side of this since I have been a victim of this as well. I was replaced by someone I trained for 6 months Turns out they (management) had planned it all along, so I understand the job security issue first hand. I have spoken about this many times on this forum before. However, I also can see Lynn's point as well. Hoarding information is not a "team" characteristic and ultimately hurts the company in the long run. I have seen people literally hold a company "hostage" because they held the entire system in their head. They never documented what they did, why they did it, or shared it with anyone. Their personal job security was more important than the company's productivity and ultimate success. Very selfish. But I have also seen that backfire on them too once management got wise to what they were doing and mandated knowledge sharing and documentation and ultimately let the "hoarder" go. It is never good for any company to let one person hold all the keys to all the locks. You are just asking for trouble...This is where management has to step in, and many times they just don't...they sometimes have their own agenda and it is usually dollar oriented.. 🙂
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
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