Has the culture of this web site changed?
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Ninja's_RGR'us (8/23/2011)
+1 on the people not using google or bols. I've seen cases where the guy just didn't know what term to type in and it's a pleasure to answer those questions beause you see the guy's actually trying. But unfortunately those are few and far between.+1, i get the most enjoyment out of helping the folks who were helping themselves and put some effort in, but needed just a bit of direction to get there.
Lowell
--help us help you! If you post a question, make sure you include a CREATE TABLE... statement and INSERT INTO... statement into that table to give the volunteers here representative data. with your description of the problem, we can provide a tested, verifiable solution to your question! asking the question the right way gets you a tested answer the fastest way possible! -
Lowell (8/23/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (8/23/2011)
+1 on the people not using google or bols. I've seen cases where the guy just didn't know what term to type in and it's a pleasure to answer those questions beause you see the guy's actually trying. But unfortunately those are few and far between.+1, i get the most enjoyment out of helping the folks who were helping themselves and put some effort in, but needed just a bit of direction to get there.
Agreed. That is the joy of teaching. So much more rewarding to help somebody learn than just do their (home)work for them while they collect the paycheck.
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I agree with Gail about the fact that in many of the posts you can see people have not even use Google. Sometimes when trying to answer a question I use Google and find that the same question have been already answered in this site. I can imagine that in that case some people may get a bit upset.
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I try to differentiate between the people posting for a hint or advice because they're stuck and the ones with the attitude of "Do my (paid) job! Now!".
Once in a while the former is not obvious and got by mistake a "2nd group type" answer. And yes, I admitt being snarky from time to time...
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I've found a number of people tend to want an abridged version of the technical documentation. i.e. dumbed down a little
I tend to frequent the replication areas more as through experience, this is one of the least well documented areas.
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I was guilty of asking a poorly formed question the first time I posted here, but the people saved our bacon anyway.
Our organization thought they could do point in time recovery, but I had a sense that they couldn't .. however, I couldn't be very specific in my original question. (I'm not a DBA).
Nonetheless, Gail and others had the patience of saints as they walked me through and answered my question. As a direct result of the feedback here, we implemented immediate and drastic changes to our backups. I continue to follow this forum on a daily basis and always get insight.
Some years back, I was a regular contributor in Oracle forums and I can assure you that the "snarky-ness level" is much higher there.
This is the post I'm referring to:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic983007-1291-1.aspx"> http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic983007-1291-1.aspx
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Ninja's_RGR'us (8/23/2011)
The one that really bug me (and yes it happens far too often) is someone who ask a question.And then 15 minutes later will reping on the same thread, and then once more another 60 minutes later.
This is free help, not the 300$ PSS line from microsoft. And even PSS has a 2H minimum buffer for the first reply (assuming your server is down or that you can't deploy software mods).
+1 on the people not using google or bols. I've seen cases where the guy just didn't know what term to type in and it's a pleasure to answer those questions beause you see the guy's actually trying. But unfortunately those are few and far between.
Looks like we were due!
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1164658-1550-1.aspx
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Ninja's_RGR'us (8/24/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (8/23/2011)
The one that really bug me (and yes it happens far too often) is someone who ask a question.And then 15 minutes later will reping on the same thread, and then once more another 60 minutes later.
This is free help, not the 300$ PSS line from microsoft. And even PSS has a 2H minimum buffer for the first reply (assuming your server is down or that you can't deploy software mods).
+1 on the people not using google or bols. I've seen cases where the guy just didn't know what term to type in and it's a pleasure to answer those questions beause you see the guy's actually trying. But unfortunately those are few and far between.
Looks like we were due!
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1164658-1550-1.aspx
That got some quick responses though didn't it.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
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SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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SQLRNNR (8/24/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (8/24/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (8/23/2011)
The one that really bug me (and yes it happens far too often) is someone who ask a question.And then 15 minutes later will reping on the same thread, and then once more another 60 minutes later.
This is free help, not the 300$ PSS line from microsoft. And even PSS has a 2H minimum buffer for the first reply (assuming your server is down or that you can't deploy software mods).
+1 on the people not using google or bols. I've seen cases where the guy just didn't know what term to type in and it's a pleasure to answer those questions beause you see the guy's actually trying. But unfortunately those are few and far between.
Looks like we were due!
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1164658-1550-1.aspx
That got some quick responses though didn't it.
I wouldn't mind if the prod server's down because of that. But at least ell me that somewhere in the post => I just did an upgrade and I'm not sure it worked correctly and because of that I have 30 people with nothing to do.
It'd still be the same answer from me but at least I could have pinged other guys in to speed it up. 😉
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SwayneBell (8/24/2011)
Some years back, I was a regular contributor in Oracle forums and I can assure you that the "snarky-ness level" is much higher there.Absolutely. It's my opinion that the Oracle community is a guru vs. newbie class war.
Peter MaloofServing Data -
I've found this to be a great resource. Almost never is my question original, though, so I found searching before asking to be a quick way to get my question answered. Having said that, a couple of times I couldn't find the asked and answered solution and after posting here got excellent help and really quickly.
I don't so much worry about snarky, though, because the help I get here is worth whatever impatience I encounter.
One other point, if people ask questions here without doing due diligence first, they're essentially taking up bandwidth better used on people who look first and then ask.
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In defense of the people who haven't read the BOL, It can be exceedingly hard to figure out where to find something if you're not familiar with the organization (or lack thereof) As an example, I open the SQL 90 version of the TSQL quick reference about once a week, because it actually has a semblance of an index, but many people I know try to find something in the 2008 version, and utterly fail. Many people also assume that the search feature on the microsoft site will get them the results they need, but in my experience, google has a much better index of the technical documentation than microsoft itself does. (I have not tried bing)
It takes a long time to learn how to find stuff in BOL!
That said, that was not really what Gail et al. were saying. Many people do come on here and ask unresearched questions that _are_ easy to answer with a simple search. My response to that is simply to ignore the question and wait for someone with more patience to answer it.
Dan Guzman - Not the MVP (7/22/2010)
All questions have to be prefaced by Server version and 'according to MS Docs' or 'my own personal opinion based on how much detail I felt like digging into at the time.' -
GilaMonster (8/23/2011)
Neither has just about any software product I've bought in the last few years (other than games)Games still come with manuals?? Since when? 😉
Seriously, the last game I bought with a manual worth the title was Falcon 4.0
On the topic of snarky "go Google" replies, I've posted several questions in the Newbies section, and have yet to get such a reply. I do try to do as much "due diligence" as possible, because I know how I get annoyed when people ask me questions for which they could have found the answer in less time by Google, then it took to walk to my desk, wait for me to finish whatever I might be doing, and ask me.
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jasona.work (8/30/2011)
GilaMonster (8/23/2011)
Neither has just about any software product I've bought in the last few years (other than games)Games still come with manuals?? Since when? 😉
Just about every one I've bought, right up til a month ago (which is the last time I bought games). Not massive tomes of information, but they are manuals and they tell you how to play.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
GilaMonster (8/30/2011)
jasona.work (8/30/2011)
GilaMonster (8/23/2011)
Neither has just about any software product I've bought in the last few years (other than games)Games still come with manuals?? Since when? 😉
Just about every one I've bought, right up til a month ago (which is the last time I bought games). Not massive tomes of information, but they are manuals and they tell you how to play.
Yes, they do.
And the results can be interesting: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/07/13/pc-ai-sucks-at-civilization-reads-manual-starts-kicking-***/
Edit: URL broken by forum censor of some sort. Take out the stars, put in a three-letter name for a donkey, and you get an interesting article.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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