November 10, 2016 at 2:36 am
Thanks for a nice article Steve. I fully agree with you that more people should learn basic coding but you might get a lot of developers fighting against that idea. People feel threatened when other people start to know too much about their work. Years ago my brother wanted to develop a finance management system but he knew nothing about accounting and therefore went to some bookkeepers to try and learn from them but they did not want to impart their knowledge with him. Lots of people believe each to his own post and bugger the rest.
Manie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I am happy because I choose to be happy.
I just love my job!!!
November 10, 2016 at 2:40 am
I think definitely yes more people should code, there is a strong movement in schools to encourage coding in the UK, using Raspberry Pi and also Sonic Pi. With Raspberry Pi its delivered as a fun way to make practical things using Python. With Sonic Pi its delivered as a fun way to learn basic coding constructs by making sound/music. I'm a late comer to database work in my sixth decade but use both of these as a way to have fun but learn useful things as well. A familiarity and comfortable feeling about software has got to be good for everyone whether you are at school, old like me or anywhere in between :o)
Steve.
November 10, 2016 at 3:07 am
manie (11/10/2016)
Thanks for a nice article Steve. I fully agree with you that more people should learn basic coding but you might get a lot of developers fighting against that idea. People feel threatened when other people start to know too much about their work. Years ago my brother wanted to develop a finance management system but he knew nothing about accounting and therefore went to some bookkeepers to try and learn from them but they did not want to impart their knowledge with him. Lots of people believe each to his own post and bugger the rest.
I was once a qualified first aider. No one would have expected me to be able to inject medicine, prescribe medicine and certainly not perform surgery. We, as an industry, need to encourage "first aiders" and highlight that there is a point where it should be done by IT professionals.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
November 10, 2016 at 3:18 am
I'm all for more people grasping the core fundamentals of logical programming, and from an early age too. It's useful in life whether you use it for a career in IT or not.
Cubetto looks like a great introduction to it.
As with all these things, the earlier you start someone learning something, the more deeply they'll learn it.
Ben
^ Thats me!
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November 10, 2016 at 3:20 am
Gary Varga (11/10/2016)
there is a point where it should be done by IT professionals.
That there is the single biggest issue with a user base who have 'some' IT knowledge. If you can define that point and get the users on board, write a book about it, you'll make a fortune! 😀
Ben
^ Thats me!
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November 10, 2016 at 3:54 am
I would consider myself an old command prompt style guy, I started my IT work when there was no such thing as Windows and all we had was code. To this day I do it - it doesn't matter if it's UNIX/Oracle or Windows/SQL-Server. I meet developers who have got no clue how VI works and ftp their code to Windows to edit programs using Notepad. However often I am being asked to extract data from flat files with sophisticated requirements where only tools like AWK,SED, etc. will work. Without that basic knowledge of coding that came from late 80's many of the tasks I do would be totally cumbersome, even impossible.
As another example - I was asked to downgrade an SQL-Server database from Standard to Express. Well all those people who keep saying "Oh, SQL is Microsoft, it's dead easy, we don't need DBA's these days" now have some trouble to build a backup script, because Express does not have any Maintenance plans where you set something up using clickology. So back to the old days of coding.
People should learn to code no matter how easy something will apear to be. I think we owe it to Microsoft that delivers a lot of GUI's to perform simple tasks that makes people powerless, but once in a while there are tasks that cannot be achieved without coding. Even people from different departments in my company use SQL and some of the code they write can be mind-boggling.
There is no life without coding. It will come to bite you sooner than later.
November 10, 2016 at 5:16 am
BenWard (11/10/2016)
Gary Varga (11/10/2016)
there is a point where it should be done by IT professionals.That there is the single biggest issue with a user base who have 'some' IT knowledge. If you can define that point and get the users on board, write a book about it, you'll make a fortune! 😀
I know. Ideal scenario so unlikely to ever happen.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
November 10, 2016 at 5:19 am
BenWard (11/10/2016)
Gary Varga (11/10/2016)
there is a point where it should be done by IT professionals.
That there is the single biggest issue with a user base who have 'some' IT knowledge. If you can define that point and get the users on board, write a book about it, you'll make a fortune! :D.
Very good point indeed. They need to know where to draw the line. Too many users has a little bit of IT knowledge then wants to tell IT how to do their job.
Manie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I am happy because I choose to be happy.
I just love my job!!!
November 10, 2016 at 6:17 am
Having been a developer for 30 years now I hate to rain of Steve's parade, but perhaps I have a different view of what he means by coding than he does. Coding to me is far more than being able to use a command line or script a backup.
Teaching someone to code who isn't a coder is worse than worthless, it's actually detrimental. First, it will either inspire false confidence (a little knowledge) or it will sour them to the point they'll hate computers and everything to do with it.
I wouldn't be adverse to a *little* coding exposure, otherwise how will kids know if they want to take it further? But real coding exposure would burn them out. It takes a certain mindset and worldview to be good. It takes a passion to tolerate the tedium year after year.
Teaching someone how to create a program to shuffle cards? Why? What does that give them? Trust me, it *won't* teach them logic. :hehe:
The whole "teach coding to more kids" mindset is baffling to me. Sure, show them some basics but in the end programming is a very specialized branch of discrete mathematics.
How many mathematicians do YOU know? 😀
November 10, 2016 at 6:32 am
Sure, and more people should drive 18-wheelers on the interstates. I think I'll go over the airport and volunteer to fly a load of folks to Chicago today, too.
Having started to write code in 1969, I have seen lots of it, worked on my own and that of others, and verified the results of many, many lines of it. I'm now 73 years old, and still write my own code. I definitely am not up to date on all the new bells and whistles of the software, but I still can validate results produced.
Folks writing their own code can be very dangerous to companies that may end up depending on invalid results for important business decisions. A while before I retired I happened to need to do some revision on a set of 10 or 12 statistical reports for my employer. Getting into the code, I discovered that nearly all of the set of reports contained the same or similar errors causing them to produce invalid information.
And even more scary, since the organization allowed non-technical 'project managers' to control such things, and since these folks were often too timid to implement code changes, the fixes were never applied.
While it is true that code can be cobbled together so that it will RUN without failing, that in no way indicates that the data produced is VALID information.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
November 10, 2016 at 6:48 am
I can only see it being of use if it is done well. Over the last thirty years the bane of my life has been people who have done a bit of trivial coding at school or university, and as a result think coding is easy. Having worked with relation databases for most of that time I am also staggered by the number of people who think they fully understand them because they have created a spread sheet with addresses or have used Access. A friend who I graduated with (BSc Physics) went on to become a Physic teacher. A few years ago the headmaster that he could teach programming when he had done none apart from some Fortran during our degree course. He really struggled with it as he had no real interest and accepted an offer of early retirement a few years later. The headmaster - he was replaced shortly after when the school slipped down the league tables.
So if coding is to be taught it has to be done well - done badly it does more harm than good!
November 10, 2016 at 7:40 am
Let's face it, there are people who are extremely intelligent, all the way through dumb as a rock. IQ tests are built to measure this very concept. So I clearly believe it is a waste of effort to try to teach everyone to code. That is part of the problem with the US school system. We expect every child to be equal, so we hold back those who would excel so we can teach everyone basic math.
IMO the proper thing to do is to teach everyone the basics, but once they get it, let them move on to advanced subjects. So making coding available to those who meet a certain standard is fine. Making a class available to entice people who aren't ready, but who might otherwise decide to apply themselves, is also fine. Wasting time trying to teach everyone how to code, when a large number of people are not interested, not capable, and never will be, is counter productive.
Other than birth defects, all people are born equal. Unfortunately various things result in some people excelling while others fail. Helping everyone excel isn't going to happen with a programming course. Offer a class, sure. Just understand that ~70% (or more!) of the people in first world countries are not capable of getting anything out of it. I am sure I have posted about the classes I had where extremely disruptive people ruined it for everyone else. We have all experienced that. I prefer to limit attendance in high level courses to those who care.
Dave
November 10, 2016 at 7:42 am
steve.chapman 14556 (11/10/2016)
I think definitely yes more people should code, there is a strong movement in schools to encourage coding in the UK, using Raspberry Pi and also Sonic Pi. With Raspberry Pi its delivered as a fun way to make practical things using Python. With Sonic Pi its delivered as a fun way to learn basic coding constructs by making sound/music. I'm a late comer to database work in my sixth decade but use both of these as a way to have fun but learn useful things as well. A familiarity and comfortable feeling about software has got to be good for everyone whether you are at school, old like me or anywhere in between :o)Steve.
Since my other post is much more negative, let me point out that I agree with what Steve says - encourage coding.
Dave
November 10, 2016 at 8:01 am
Love these Friday articles. Always something to just think about before the weekend.
I agree with you, but not 100%. We're living in the age of the geek and having STEM skills are important, indeed vital for many people to get a job. However, I mourn the loss of the arts in education. I wish we could have them both in education. Or at least both as an elective.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
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