September 13, 2010 at 3:31 pm
peterzeke: I agree with everything you say.
I'll add two (or three) more of my cents: There are two stories here (no doubt out of thousands everywhere) of people who were "bit" by organizations which did not properly manage the feelings of their volunteers. In at least one case, it sounds like that person may never volunteer again. That's too bad.
I too have felt bad from treatment I received at previous volunteer efforts. It sure does sting. I know that such treatment makes me less likely to want to do volunteer again in the future. I just try each time to put it all into perspective and hope that I can get over it.
I also hope that organizations that accept volunteer efforts will improve in the future. We can all work to help make that happen by being sensitive and aware when we manage the volunteer efforts of others on behalf of an organization.
September 13, 2010 at 4:23 pm
JJ B wrote: 'There are two stories here (no doubt out of thousands everywhere) of people who were "bit" by organizations which did not properly manage the feelings of their volunteers. In at least one case, it sounds like that person may never volunteer again. That's too bad.'
My experience with the symphony orchestra certainly struck a sour note (pun intended). But it hasn't stopped me from volunteering in a number of organisations, performing non-IT-related tasks. Soup, anyone?
However, IT skills are generally more valuable than those required for stirring a pot of Campbell's at a homeless shelter; and I think I shall be very cautious indeed before I offer my IT skills up for free. In this age of cheap shrink-wrapped software and free downloadable IPhone apps, much of the general public (and perhaps many of those running charitable organisations) apparently think of software developers' time as being similarly easy to come by.
It's not so much a matter of my feelings being 'managed', but realising that the contribution I had made was viewed as being so readily expendible. If charitable organisations pay for IT services - even IT services provided at a modest discount - the price mechanism will balance those organisations' expectations and valuation of IT-related work.
September 13, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Well maybe u should think this way....i want to help, i want to contribute but what about you(the reciever)...what will u do for me.
To me is simple ... yes i will help without asking money but in return i expect that the time i will spend it will be rewarded somehow..lets say they will wash my car...
There is no one way help... if they ask something from u, u should get something in return just to get the appreciation u deserve.
Let me give u one example of how things go...although it involves money
A friend of mine (he also owes me a lot) opened a computer shop some years ago.
At first we would serve every customer at very low cost...fixing the computer for just $20...we were trying to have a low price in order to get more customers...but not much luck
Some time later my friend decided that this way is not the right one (and he was right) and increased the charge to $50....."if they want to fix their computer they should at least pay"
Well something changed .... customers began to appreciate the work....fixing the computer was no more something cheap and easy as they thought and if they want the work done they should pay no matter what....if they didn't like it they could always try and fix it themselves....:)
Well this example shows this...if u don't get paid(reward) in any form no one will appreciate it...the most of them i 'll bet u ,they will think that "it was something very easy like 10 minutes work" and every time u delay in order to make ur work better the common thought will be "he is not very good...he has this project and he is taking ages....at least he is free"
So ,never underestimate ur work,always get a reward and remember nothing in life is free.
September 14, 2010 at 2:46 am
peterzeke (9/13/2010)
peter-757102 (9/13/2010)
Why would charity be totally unpaid for, isn't that unrealistic?I can accept it will be a bare minimum if its true charity and not one of those big aid organisations with millions of expenses alone. But even a smaller organisation should offer some form of pay to cover your expenses
Offering charity essentially means to give freely to someone in need -- to be paid would be "work". Thus, I wouldn't expect to be paid for volunteering of my time & efforts. If the charitable organization happens to offer some form of payment for services when the project is done, then it is an added bonus for helping them out.
The catch is knowing from the beginning if you can truly commit a portion of your time for volunteering. Sometimes one's best intentions far outpace the capacity to keep up with the effort required. It's hard to admit to one's self when promises made are not being kept; hurts all the more when others state it outright to you.
Offering a service for cost or even slightly below is as much charity as doing a donation of earned money. Both are charity, and both are voluntary. You save the organisation resources, as it otherwise does have to pay more.
September 14, 2010 at 7:35 am
Craig-315134 (9/13/2010)
A cynic might conclude, 'no good deed goes unpunished', and 'it's not what you know, but who you know'.
But the lesson I learned was, 'no-one rides for free'. The next time someone wants me to volunteer IT services to them, they can volunteer a decent hourly rate to me.
I second that bro. I've been in that situation too many times. It has also, almost always, been some close friend or relative of the client/organization that they decide they CAN pay to do the job that they had me volunteering to do b/c they couldn't afford to pay me for the projects.
I'm not sure about the 'no good deed goes unpunished' part , but it is definitely all about who you know.
Everyone is always looking for a free ride. This pony is fresh out. I don't consider myself being a cynic. I'm just a realist.
September 14, 2010 at 7:42 am
are you working with getting paid! Boooooo. and on top of it you got fired big boooooooooooo.
Abhijit - http://abhijitmore.wordpress.com
September 14, 2010 at 7:51 am
... to do the job that they had me volunteering to do ...
So, they were making you volunteer?
Granted, it's hard to demand payment from friends & family, but if offering free services results in you feeling burned, then I suppose it makes sense to no longer choose to volunteer and negotiate fees for services instead.
On the flip side, shame on the organization or individual who clearly has the funding to pay for services (even if at a discount rate) but only expects free help.
September 14, 2010 at 8:08 am
peterzeke (9/14/2010)
... to do the job that they had me volunteering to do ...
So, they were making you volunteer?
Granted, it's hard to demand payment from friends & family, but if offering free services results in you feeling burned, then I suppose it makes sense to no longer choose to volunteer and negotiate fees for services instead.
On the flip side, shame on the organization or individual who clearly has the funding to pay for services (even if at a discount rate) but only expects free help.
I second that too.
September 14, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Craig-315134 (9/13/2010)
However, IT skills are generally more valuable than those required for stirring a pot of Campbell's at a homeless shelter; and I think I shall be very cautious indeed before I offer my IT skills up for free. In this age of cheap shrink-wrapped software and free downloadable IPhone apps, much of the general public (and perhaps many of those running charitable organisations) apparently think of software developers' time as being similarly easy to come by.
It's quite possible in your case that the orchestra realized that they needed more than a volunteer could provide and decided to hire someone.
I think you should volunteer if you want to, and how you want to. Live up to your commitments, but also be ready to let them go when it's time. An organization ought to pay for services it needs, or forgo them. If they can get volunteer services, great, but they should not expect people to give things, like IT services, for free.
September 14, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Steve Jones wrote: 'It's quite possible in your case that the orchestra realized that they needed more than a volunteer could provide and decided to hire someone.'
One might think so, Mr Jones. Certainly the scope of changes which the new conductor requested of me was considerable. But one might also think it was the excuse he needed to hire his friend - at a commercial rate - to perform those changes. There was never any suggestion I could participate further, either as a volunteer or a paid consultant.
Shabby treatment, to say the least.
But the experience hasn't prevented me from volunteering - in a non-IT role - in a number of worthy causes. And truthfully (as one of the previous posters noted), it's a nice mental holiday doing something useful which is unrelated to IT.
Thank you for your kind words and wise counsel.
September 14, 2010 at 1:52 pm
I think that if an organization generally pays contractors to do stuff like fixing their plumbing, mowing the lawn, or book keeping, then they can find a way to fund a modest IT budget. Most people who donate to charity do so in the form of money, and it's understood that at least part of the overall budget is for upkeeping the building and administration, and this should cover the website or database.
Another thing to consider is that, at least here in the US, if you provide professional services to a non-profit organization, then you can probably claim those otherwise billable hours as a tax deduction. You would just need the organization to provide receipts.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
September 14, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Craig-315134 (9/14/2010)
One might think so, Mr Jones. Certainly the scope of changes which the new conductor requested of me was considerable. But one might also think it was the excuse he needed to hire his friend - at a commercial rate - to perform those changes. There was never any suggestion I could participate further, either as a volunteer or a paid consultant.
Well that sucks. If it went to a friend, corruption reigns nicely in there. I'm sorry for your experience. Unfortunately not much you can do there.
I try hard to be aware of my conflicts, and work to not take advantage of them. I suspect there are plenty of people that don't feel that way.
Good luck at the soup kitchen.
September 14, 2010 at 5:31 pm
My sympathies, both speaking as someone who's in IT out of need, not want, and as someone who's sold to charities in a previous career, and found the wastage quite disgusting. I NEVER give to organised charity, and I wouldn't work for one, however bad things got.
I've certainly found that this business can suck a lot of your pride out of you if you permit it to. It can be very dispiriting to see managers with a tenth of our learning getting nearly twice what we do. It can also be extremely rewarding, in every sense. But you need to be tough as nails, and remember, it's JUST supply and demand, nothing personal; if you're behind the skills curve, reskill. That's what I did (and will only stop when I ship out of this game).
Quite a few people here who are very generous with their knowledge, and it's remiscent of that old phrase, "When the student is ready to learn, a teacher shall appear" - the beauty part is, they're already here.
Stay strong, friend. 🙂
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