September 11, 2010 at 11:10 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Getting Fired from an Unpaid Job.
Best wishes,
Phil Factor
September 11, 2010 at 7:57 pm
I've never been fired from an unpaid, but I can understand.
September 11, 2010 at 8:01 pm
It's tough when it is for charity. Priorities usually are for the job that brings in the bacon for the family. After that - it is somewhat a "guilty pleasure" to help out with other projects and give of one's time and talents. It's hard but there has to be a balance drawn.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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September 12, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Hats off to you for posting this article. Getting fired from any project or job for under-delivering is hummiliating, and not something most people like to admit, although I'm sure most of us have have been through it at least once in our careers.
I guess the thing people need to keep in mind when doing this kind of work, is that the project may still be extremely important, even if the client doesn't have any money to pay for it.
Probably a good way to think about it from the developers point of view is that your priorities should be determined by what you've committed, rather than what pays.
September 12, 2010 at 4:54 pm
I fully understand this whole situation. This is all part of the "beauty" and "pain" of a capitalist society - not to say it is a bad thing - it just is what it is - the ever cycling catch-22 scenario.
For the developer/technologist, much satisfication is found in the conquering a challenge and delivering an amazing piece of technology that satisfies and delivers to the requests of the user. The downside is the drain and strain it can put on you and the sometimes lack of appreciation for the marvels you have done - the "how hard could it be" or "what could possible go wrong" mindset of the outsider.
For the Requestors, they are also caught in the catch-22 of wanting the best or even just a solution but cannot afford the commercials - so, free is good!
However, "free" has a price. Many of the rigors of a commercial process are not put in place - sometimes because of the lack of knowledge of what should be there and what "gotchas" there could be. Also, there will be a lack of competitive options available and thus the selection is often primarily made on "he who volunteers, gets the job", with know credential checking or availability assessment, etc. The project can also be lacking full definition and we all know how projects grow without sufficient scope definition. Those are some of the "gotchas".
Bottomline - both parties need to consider "the price of free" and accept that "financially free" has "non-financial cost" in its place.
This also happens in commercial situations as well - selecting for "cheaper" (resource, time and money) has trade-offs and often decision makers screw the price down so far and "sacrifice" some funtionality that solutions don't meet desired results, but still think they should get what they want - i.e. "Have their cake and eat it too".
Anyhow, we still like doing things for people, it makes us feel good, we learn stuff, others get benefits for little expense and society takes some a few more steps foward - and when everyone plays together a nicely, it is a beautiful place - when it goes wrong, just shake hands, chalk another one up to experience and move on.
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September 12, 2010 at 6:46 pm
I do not think that charities do not have money for paying some kind of salary.
They get what they paid for.
Maybe, having two DBAs/Developers would be a good idea for them. When one of the DBAs is busy with him main responsibilities, the other one can continue doing the job.
September 13, 2010 at 1:36 am
I look after a couple of club websites in my spare time and often find I can't get things done or posted as soon as I would like. However the rest of the folks have day jobs too, so are understanding about it. I make an extra effort to prioritise and deal with the top priority things quickly even when I'd rather be doing some development.
Without that support from the committees I think I'd quickly give up. I have now got others who can share the job which helps considerably so I'd recommend involving others as much as possible when anyone does this type of unpaid work if only to give you an easy way out when you need it.
September 13, 2010 at 2:23 am
Why would charity be totally unpaid for, isn't that unrealistic?
I can accept it will be a bare minimum if its true charity and not one of those big aid organisations with millions of expenses alone. But even a smaller organisation should offer some form of pay to cover your expenses. When getting some form of pay it means you are in it for real, no excusses.
And when you do not get paid, you got to shuttle between income and charity and thats where your pain turned out to be in the end. You cannot be expected to both jobs at the same time and with total dedication. After all, you need to have income to feed yourself as well, and that takes priority.
So in my view, charity should offer some cost covering pay or else they forfeit any rights on reliability. I personally would be royaly pissed with the people that fired you. Why did they not offer a solution to your prediciment? nf fact, even commercial organisations that do pay are more flexible is my experience.
The last thing you should do, is beat yourself up over it...its no sin to have to eat and work for it!
September 13, 2010 at 2:45 am
I was pretty astounded by your post. You gave your time for free and to be treated like that is pretty unfair. Of course your paid work has to come first they should understand that.
I agree with the comment that if someone is giving time for free, they should be prepared to be flexible if that person has other commitments.
Good luck to that charity finding free DBA expertise that does n't have other commitments
September 13, 2010 at 3:16 am
As usual people want more than is offered. This is human nature and I should imagine occurs frequently by parties either side of the fence. It certainly does in the commercial world. Those who succeed are the ones who do not push too much. It is no point in squeezing the supplier so much that they no longer can afford to supply you - afford does not just apply in monetary terms.
I hope that those using "free" services realise that they may have to organise smaller units of works and plans for redundancy of supply as the true "cost" of this.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
September 13, 2010 at 7:10 am
peter-757102 (9/13/2010)
Why would charity be totally unpaid for, isn't that unrealistic?I can accept it will be a bare minimum if its true charity and not one of those big aid organisations with millions of expenses alone. But even a smaller organisation should offer some form of pay to cover your expenses
Offering charity essentially means to give freely to someone in need -- to be paid would be "work". Thus, I wouldn't expect to be paid for volunteering of my time & efforts. If the charitable organization happens to offer some form of payment for services when the project is done, then it is an added bonus for helping them out.
The catch is knowing from the beginning if you can truly commit a portion of your time for volunteering. Sometimes one's best intentions far outpace the capacity to keep up with the effort required. It's hard to admit to one's self when promises made are not being kept; hurts all the more when others state it outright to you.
September 13, 2010 at 9:48 am
Some years ago, I developed a new website for a local symphony orchestra, and by all accounts, did a good job of it. However, after moving out of the area and getting a more demanding job, I wasn't able to put in the amount of time and effort to do much more than maintain the website content.
The orchestra eventually hired a new conductor, who was young and hip and full of ideas about how the website should change. I liked his approach and his enthusiasm, but had to tell him, in the kindest way possible, I just couldn't do the half of what he was asking.
It was a few days later I received an email from the orchestra's chairperson, thanking me for my years of volunteer service to the orchestra; that a new (paid) webmaster/developer had been brought on board (a fellow who proved to be a close friend of the new conductor); and would I mind immediately passing along the website's administrative access credentials to him?
Well, now. Granted, it was the orchestra's website, and it could manage it as it pleased. Granted, too, I really didn't have a great deal of time to dedicate remaking the website to the conductor's numerous and exacting specifications. But the rather abrupt and impersonal manner in which I got the boot, after creating and managing the site for several years, and without even being offered the option to take on even a little additional work at pay, annoyed me considerably.
A cynic might conclude, 'no good deed goes unpunished', and 'it's not what you know, but who you know'.
But the lesson I learned was, 'no-one rides for free'. The next time someone wants me to volunteer IT services to them, they can volunteer a decent hourly rate to me.
September 13, 2010 at 10:25 am
I'm saddened by all the replies that do not understand why payment was not involved. The whole point of a volunteer is that you do not get paid. The point is that you have decided to **give** time and skills for a cause that you believe in. This is not about a second job. This is about VOLUNTEEEEERING.
I prefer to volunteer my time doing things other than IT, because I think it is healthier. However, I also admire those people who spend their work life doing IT, and then decide to do it on their free time too in order to contribute back to society.
You just have to remember that while organizations should treat their volunteers like gold, they often do not. You just have to know that up front. You have to decide up front that you are going to get all of what you want out of the project simply by doing the work and understand that you may not "feel the love". It's sad, but it's the way these things often work. Been there, done that. And still doing that. Volunteering is important.
September 13, 2010 at 11:06 am
JJ B wrote: 'You just have to remember that while organizations should treat their volunteers like gold, they often do not. ... It's sad, but it's the way these things often work.'
In the absence of the price mechanism, 'free' resources - including the time and work-product of an IT volunteer - are liable to be undervalued and even abused.
The price mechanism balances demand and supply, or infinite wants and limited means. Sorry, but that's the way things work out, at least in Western societies.
September 13, 2010 at 11:13 am
JJ B -- Thanks for beating the drum a tad louder about the definition of volunteering: no one gets paid to volunteer.
Getting back to Phil's emotional state (and perhaps the point of his story), it's understandable how it can *sting* a bit for being fired for offering free help. The catch was that priorities in his life seemed to have been greater than the time he could provide to volunteer. Again, it sucks when you want to be of service to others, and later realize that the time you give isn't enough for the time that's needed.
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