February 1, 2011 at 8:42 am
I'm curious. Has anyone made the move from DBA / Developer up to management (team size doesn't matter)?
If so, what were your experiences and thoughts on the experience?
Did you have any problems making the transition?
If you had to repeat the move, what would you do differently?
February 1, 2011 at 8:57 am
I started off as a Developer/ network admin. Moved to Jr DBA, then to senior DBA and now I am the Manager of Database team. I am also part of the IT Management team. We take all decisions in the IT part of our company.
The transition was slow. So it was OK. The big difference is that you spend more time writing emails, having meetings and writing documents than your usual daily DBA jobs. You end up doing more paper work to be honest. Budgets, hiring, review, overlook projects, read a lot and talk to the business owners.
It has its perks though. You get a better scale of pay, you dont get called for silly things during off hrs for technical support and you get to decide which direction your companies IT is going.
-Roy
February 1, 2011 at 9:19 am
I did the opposite, in a way.
Went from management/supervisor roles, into sales/marketing, and then into IT.
The key thing to know in any management position is how to deal with communications issues. You need to get enough information to do the job with, but not so much that you get swamped. It's a balancing act.
Everything else in management stems from that.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 1, 2011 at 4:48 pm
I did it a few times.
I was the basic DBA, got offered the IT manager position at a small company. That meant I managed the network guy/programmer/contractor, and myself. Not a huge promotion, but I enjoyed it since the company had 30 people and I had fairly free reign to do stuff and a real budget to spend.
A few years later I took another manager job over 2 other DBAs and 2 network guys. Little budget, and constant fire fighting made that job suck.
In both those positions, I also had to do work, meaning I was still the DBA/developer in both cases and managed around doing other work.
At Peoplesoft, I was promoted from 1 of 3 DBAs at JD Edwards, to manager of 10 production DBAs across the JDE/PSFT companies. It was cross platform (SQL/Oracle/DB2) and across locations (CO/CA) and I didn't have to do work. I just managed people. I had limited budget, and lots of issues, but I thought it was interesting. If the company had not been such a mess from a morale standpoint, not to mention an offer from Oracle hanging over my head, I would have enjoyed it more. Trying to be the "downfield" blocker for DBAs, motivating them to be better and improve the environment while solving problems and helping them grow their careers was something I liked. It was a good "type" of job as a manager, and not a manager/IT worker.
February 1, 2011 at 5:15 pm
I'm still a DBA, but have been offered a position on our data warehouse team, writing reports with the potential for some direct interaction with our nightly ETL. My boss has intimated that the BI side of things is a much better path to management. Would you all agree?
I know this is a "it depends" type of question. When I posed the question to some colleagues, one of them made the point that BI/report writing type positions can't be outsourced (as opposed to a DBA). Definitely thought provoking...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacramento SQL Server users group - http://sac.sqlpass.org
Follow me on Twitter - @SQLDCH
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
February 1, 2011 at 5:24 pm
The reason BI can be a better path to management is twofold. One, you learn more about the goals of the company by understanding what they research and their intent. Second is that it puts you in front of more 'business' people regularly, so you network better. These two items help with a management perspective instead of the head down get it done developer perspective.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
February 1, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Brandie Tarvin (2/1/2011)
I'm curious. Has anyone made the move from DBA / Developer up to management (team size doesn't matter)?If so, what were your experiences and thoughts on the experience?
I decided I didn't like it. In my case though, I jumped in the deep end of the pool far too young and inexperienced with some resentment from longer term folks. I was cocky, stupid, and inexperienced in how to deal with a boss that expected too much and keeping my employees from getting slaughtered timewise.
Now I'm more entrenched at the other end of the spectrum and I'm not sure I'd want to deal with the political headaches again, but I'm sure I could do one heck of a better job. I know I can do small team leads, say 4-6 people, easily, and have done so with enjoyment. More than that and I end up either too involved with everyone to really run a larger team, or I end up far too hands off.
With a handful of people you can get involved in personalities a lot easier. You can care more, too. Once you have too many people, you need to be able to separate responsibility to the company to responsibility to your employees. I have a harder time with that. I know damned well as an employee I'm merely a cog, but I have a difficult time treating people like one without either being an *** about it, or not being willing to swap one out when it's too much of a problem because I care too much.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
February 1, 2011 at 7:31 pm
I have had the unique experience of moving from a team lead (4 programmers) actively engaged in programming, writing software requirements and test plan documents. It was enjoyable as the team members meshed very well with each other. Then to my surprise and delight was offered the opportunity to become Production Manager of a production facility that ran 24 hrs per day, 7 days per week , closing for 2 consecutive weeks for vacations, Xmas eve, Xmas day, New Years eve and New Years day, with a staff of about 180 production workers and 9 shift foreman with the 180 production workers represented by a very strong union. The job was challenging, overall, more challenging then writing a complex Update Statement or designing a new database, in that it involved individuals with differing personalities, the challenge being how to motivate each individual.
In addition my base pay was considerably higher than when in IT and in addition a profit sharing plan based on the plants Contribution To The Business' Gross Margin. - To give you an idea of that, I could take the bonus check to the nearest GM or Ford dealership and walk out with spare change and a top of the line vehicle equipped with every bell and whistle offered.
Now you should be wondering why I left that golden world, well simply put management above my position was composed of back stabbing individuals who got where they were, not through competency but rather to whom they were married to. Those individuals ordered me to make an unethical offer during negotiation of a new labor union contract, which I refused to do, and tendered my immediate resignation, which was accepted. Oh and in less than a month found an IT job that paid well and where my work was appreciated.
Summing it all up, you gotta like people, treat each as an individual, and be satisified when you improve production, quality of code or whatever.
February 2, 2011 at 4:53 am
SQLDCH (2/1/2011)
My boss has intimated that the BI side of things is a much better path to management. Would you all agree?
It really does depend, mainly on the company. Ask your boss how many of the BI people have actually moved up to management. Get names to put with faces. Ask him how many people in the DBA side have moved up to management.
If the answer is none to the first question (even if it's none or some to the DBA question), then he can't really tell you that BI gives you the fast track to management because it hasn't happened yet. How can he predict where the next manager is going to come from?
I'm leery of people telling me things like that without proof to back it up. If state governors consistently end up as POTUS, then I would run for governor as a step up that ladder. But that hasn't been the case for decades. Now it's a senate position that gives the leg up to POTUS ambitions. Same thing with IT work. If it actually is happening, then by all means, grab that BI job. But if there is no track record in the company, take boss's words with a grain of salt and do what you think is best for your management ambitions.
February 2, 2011 at 6:27 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/2/2011)
SQLDCH (2/1/2011)
My boss has intimated that the BI side of things is a much better path to management. Would you all agree?It really does depend, mainly on the company. Ask your boss how many of the BI people have actually moved up to management. Get names to put with faces. Ask him how many people in the DBA side have moved up to management.
If the answer is none to the first question (even if it's none or some to the DBA question), then he can't really tell you that BI gives you the fast track to management because it hasn't happened yet. How can he predict where the next manager is going to come from?
I'm leery of people telling me things like that without proof to back it up. If state governors consistently end up as POTUS, then I would run for governor as a step up that ladder. But that hasn't been the case for decades. Now it's a senate position that gives the leg up to POTUS ambitions. Same thing with IT work. If it actually is happening, then by all means, grab that BI job. But if there is no track record in the company, take boss's words with a grain of salt and do what you think is best for your management ambitions.
I'm not so sure about the POTUS thing. Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Jr were all governors. I don't remember what Bush Sr was, besides a CIA exec, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't a senator. That's four of the last six, and only one of the last six (Obama) was a senator.
Otherwise, good points. I've personally found that the fastest way to become a manager is to apply for jobs (internal promotions or external job listings) in management.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 2, 2011 at 6:32 am
GSquared (2/2/2011)
I'm not so sure about the POTUS thing. Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Jr were all governors. I don't remember what Bush Sr was, besides a CIA exec, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't a senator. That's four of the last six, and only one of the last six (Obama) was a senator.
I may have it reversed. It may have been senators that originally jumped to POTUS and now it's governors.
February 2, 2011 at 7:52 am
SQLDCH (2/1/2011)
I'm still a DBA, but have been offered a position on our data warehouse team, writing reports with the potential for some direct interaction with our nightly ETL. My boss has intimated that the BI side of things is a much better path to management. Would you all agree?
As Craig already mentioned:
you get to know the business processes better, and you meet more people of "the business".
Maybe also because BI developers are sometimes less "die hard coders" (aka geeks) than other developers 😀
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
MCSE Business Intelligence - Microsoft Data Platform MVP
February 2, 2011 at 8:08 am
Next question:
How did you half-management / half-DBA types deal with the overload of DBA tasks?
I.E., say there's too much workload for the DBA team to handle in a 40 hr week unless you pitch in. But most of your time gets taken up by meetings, employee reviews / problems, budget projects, and other managerial tasks. What are the techniques you use for handling this problem when you can't hire more staff?
February 2, 2011 at 11:12 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/2/2011)
Next question:How did you half-management / half-DBA types deal with the overload of DBA tasks?
I.E., say there's too much workload for the DBA team to handle in a 40 hr week unless you pitch in. But most of your time gets taken up by meetings, employee reviews / problems, budget projects, and other managerial tasks. What are the techniques you use for handling this problem when you can't hire more staff?
I can tell you what my 'best' managers did in those scenarios... they worked from home an average of 2 -3 hours a night. Those were the folks when they asked if I could stay an extra four hours on a rare occassion I'd cancel dates for because I knew damned well they'd been doing it the entire time. It wasn't something they *wouldn't* do.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
February 2, 2011 at 2:59 pm
Brandie Tarvin (2/2/2011)
Next question:How did you half-management / half-DBA types deal with the overload of DBA tasks?
I.E., say there's too much workload for the DBA team to handle in a 40 hr week unless you pitch in. But most of your time gets taken up by meetings, employee reviews / problems, budget projects, and other managerial tasks. What are the techniques you use for handling this problem when you can't hire more staff?
First you can't get sucked into too many meetings. One thing I push back on is managers trying to fill their day with meetings. Usually you can cut out some of these, and ignore others. Depends on your place of work, but I tended to not go to meetings that were fillers if I had work to do.
Second, you have to push back in both directions. You can't be effective at either job if you do them both as an FTE. You have to be a part time manager, which means you only deal with stuff that a manager really needs to do. And then you have to take less technical responsibilities because you have to be available for those managerial tasks.
If your boss doesn't see it that way, and can't commit, don't take the job.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply