July 19, 2011 at 12:06 pm
dma-669038 (7/19/2011)
Craig Farrell (7/19/2011)
cengland0 (7/19/2011)
joe in the falls (7/19/2011)
Until I'm invested in a company and care if it succeeds, you get what you paid for. One full day's work for one full day's pay.Am curious on how you work this out...usually companies look to individuals to demonstrate initial trust, rarely seen it work the other way around..where i am the DBA new or old goes on call two weeks after being hired, it is never really 'one full day's work for one full day's pay' or even if you state such stances you are unlikely to get hired.
The answers are not what you'll think are always best practice, but they work for me.
1) I've worked long and hard to build up my references and reputation. I bank on it.
2) I charge for being on-call at a lower rate simply because of the necessary SLA. I can't go to dinner, I can't make plans, and I'm tied to a 15-30 minute 'window' to be responsive to an issue. That to me is work, and thus, I charge. I charge full price when resolving an issue.
2a) I recommend if they have that much concern, I'll be happy to work a late shift instead, such as 8 PM to 4 AM, and then I'm not 'on call', I'm just working. Have you noticed I hate being on call?
3) I've had employers who have had a difficulty with the concept that I'm a contractor who works for money. These are opportunities I'd rather pass by. Usually employment scenarios that want you to work for any other reason besides that as primary are looking for ways to get more out of you then they want to pay for. I'll skip it.
4) I won't go perm at a job until I've contracted with them and understand their intentions. This gives me some 'vig' in regards to the jobs I'll take to try out an employer. If at the end of the 3 month contract to hire period I'm not excited about the offer or the business, I'll extend the contract or move on. This does work. I'm at 10 months on a 3 month gig at the moment and I don't see me moving on for at least another 6 months.
5) I'm loyal to my agreements. I say I'll do it, it gets done.
6) I interview very well.
7) I've learned I work for managers, not companies. It alters the presentation, the methodology, and the communication paths. (Mind you, yes, I'm a DBA: I help the manager protect the company from itself in regards to data, etc etc...)
I don't know if that helped you, but those are a few highlights off the top of my head that make it work for me.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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July 19, 2011 at 12:13 pm
3) I've had employers who have had a difficulty with the concept that I'm a contractor who works for money. These are opportunities I'd rather pass by. Usually employment scenarios that want you to work for any other reason besides that as primary are looking for ways to get more out of you then they want to pay for. I'll skip it.
I don't know if that helped you, but those are a few highlights off the top of my head that make it work for me.
I have no arguments with whether or not it works for you. Perfectly legitimate if it does. I just don't agree with above points in all employment situations. Where I work all of us full time dba's have to work outside hours and we are compensated very well for doing so. They do expect us to take care of what a DBA has to take care of, as long as you understand and agree to that there is no overt exploitation.And there are plenty of contractors i know of too who are taken advantage of , it is not just a full time employment thing.
All said and done, i personally believe it is upto me to demonstrate trust and willingness to go the extra mile with anyone, be it a full time employer or a contracting company. If that does not work or give me expected results i look elsewhere but i don't look to them to show me evidence that they are worth it before trying.
July 19, 2011 at 12:21 pm
dma-669038 (7/19/2011)
I have no arguments with whether or not it works for you. Perfectly legitimate if it does. I just don't agree with above points in all employment situations. Where I work all of us full time dba's have to work outside hours and we are compensated very well for doing so.
That's unusual. Usually you get a market comparible FTE rate and then are expected to alter your life around their needs.
They do expect us to take care of what a DBA has to take care of, as long as you understand and agree to that there is no overt exploitation.And there are plenty of contractors i know of too who are taken advantage of , it is not just a full time employment thing.
True enough, but at least as a contractor I know one thing. If I work 70 hours in a week, I get paid nearly two weeks of salary in a week.
All said and done, i personally believe it is upto me to demonstrate trust and willingness to go the extra mile with anyone, be it a full time employer or a contracting company. If that does not work or give me expected results i look elsewhere but i don't look to them to show me evidence that they are worth it before trying.
That right there is a significant difference between us. Walking out of an interview once, the interviewer turned to me and said: "I'm not sure which one of us was giving that interview." Yes, I got the offer. I did turn it down though.
I do go the extra mile, but that's because my reputation is what keeps me employed, my references to show it, and those are direct impacts on my financial expectations. However, my willingness and their expectation need to be two separate things.
My general interviewing approach: I'm bringing skills, willingness, experience, and my time to the table. I'll prove it to you. Now, what you got for me?
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
July 19, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Not heard of that many dbas who can claim to work 9 to 5 unless the business itself is a purely 9 to 5 shop. We get lot of benefits that consultants don't - we get a great healthcare plan, 2 solid trainings a year, a good bonus, six weeks of paid vacation. I have considered the tradeoffs with consulting and it is not worth it, for me and several others. As for the interview approach, again if that works for you there is nothing to say about it. Just that one does not get hired always that way, and showing one's ability to be flexible might gain one more rewards in the long run sometimes.
July 19, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Craig Farrell (7/19/2011)
. . . My general interviewing approach: I'm bringing skills, willingness, experience, and my time to the table. I'll prove it to you. Now, what you got for me?
Excellent.
July 19, 2011 at 1:28 pm
I've taken the same attitude when interviewing. I don't want to go through six jobs in eight years so I'll find out as much as I can during the interview to get a feel for whether or not it's a good fit. "What has your turnover been in the last year," is a wonderful question.
July 19, 2011 at 4:12 pm
cfradenburg (7/19/2011)
I've taken the same attitude when interviewing. I don't want to go through six jobs in eight years so I'll find out as much as I can during the interview to get a feel for whether or not it's a good fit. "What has your turnover been in the last year," is a wonderful question.
I am happy for you. It sounds like you have been extremely fortunate in your career. Different people look to get different things out of the time they spend working. Have you read this recent and related SSC Editorial? http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Editorial/74423/[/url]
The last line in particular rings all too true for a lot of people. Interviewers and interviewees as groups are no better that the other when it comes to putting spin on a given state of affairs.
There are no special teachers of virtue, because virtue is taught by the whole community.
--Plato
July 19, 2011 at 7:14 pm
There is lots of things you can find out *before* the interview even, by talking to friends/contacts at user group meets and looking on sites like glassdoor.com for reviews. When I walk into the interview room i'd like to have a basic idea of what the company is about. Demanding interview negotiations are almost directly related to how much they need you, how valuable your skills are and what other options they have. Just being straight and demanding does not add up to confidence and a hire. If the goal is to find someone at short notice with good skills then they will come down to what person says and just go with the skills. Many times it simply is not that simple, companies hold out for years in search of the right person (where i work we took almost 8 months to replace someone), and many people simply do not land jobs because they come across as too demanding and do not realize that you can't deal them the upper hand when they have other choices. In short, know who you are and know the market before using any technique and that helps.
July 20, 2011 at 10:23 am
All very good tips. It boils down to not being an arrogant know-it-all right from the get-go. Give the team a chance to adapt to you. Get to know each other a bit. Then start to flash some of that with a pinch of humility 😉
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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July 20, 2011 at 4:30 pm
When I'm interviewing people all my questions can be attributed to 3 meta-questions
1. Can they do the job
2. Will they do the job
3. Will they fit in.
The dress code thing depends on the level you are within the organisation. My CEO dresses in a suit but with an open necked shirt. As a result he always looks relaxed in the office but smart enough so if he has to meet someone at short notice he isn't going to make people think hes a schlep.
Junior programmers tend to dress in jeans, dubious t-shirts and trainers and they look like junior programmers.
I think the Day 1 bathroom, Day 30 know everyone you need to know point is extremely relevant.
I think volunteering for a few of the jobs that people hate has some payback. It shows your willing to pull your weight and the chances are you will learn a lot on those jobs as they tend to be baptisms of fire.
IF there is a Friday lunchtime pub routine, don't get a reputation for standing at the back of the queue!
July 21, 2011 at 8:59 am
Awesome post by Kendra Little on Brentozar.com today on questions you can and should ask
July 21, 2011 at 9:46 am
dma-669038 (7/21/2011)
Awesome post by Kendra Little on Brentozar.com today on questions you can and should ask
Awesome, indeed!
July 21, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Good points in that blog.
I've seen my boss turn down applicants because they hadn't bothered to learn even the basic things about our company before the interview: what our product line is, what our business sector is, etc.
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
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