July 19, 2011 at 7:34 am
Yep, donuts (or kringle here in WI) are a the thing....oops, what about our gluten free friends! 🙂
July 19, 2011 at 7:44 am
I think Andy's list is just awesome. Dress code is important, i would say adapt to the company's dress code, that should suffice and most companies do have one.I know of a fellow dba lady who insists on wearing formals to work (her workplace allows business casual) - one day i met someone who worked with her who asked 'oh you mean that stuffy overdressed lady?'..yeah it does matter and i suppose if you went in shabby attire you'd be referred to as the opposite too.
One point also i'd like to add and have experienced, is to not overwork or push the line on standards for work..observe what is expected/appreciated and what is not, make sure to reach the maximum on that before overstepping boundaries and doing more.I know enough people who are over achivers and not appreciated because how they do it makes team members look bad. So how you project what you do is very important. And needless to say if you are among chronic under achievers it may be time to look for another position and leave. Also i dont think there is such a thing as a 'right job', only right for a certain period of time, longer periods of time are better.
July 19, 2011 at 8:09 am
I think that one should also not be afraid to question why things are the way they are in a given work environment. I was at my prior position for five years. Our office dress code was far more casual than my current position (coming up on five years as well) had when I arrived. During my interview process, I brought this up, and actually got the dress code relaxed at my current employer in the process of hiring on. Recently, the dress code has relaxed even further for those of us who do not have outside contact as a regular part of our jobs. This too came about as the result of a new hire who came from an even more relaxed workplace than I did. If you are confident in your ability to be a strong contributor to an employer, it doesn't hurt to try to mold the environment to be more to your liking, as long as it's done with some awareness of what is or is not up for discussion. I've never tried overly hard to fit in in a given workplace. My motto has always been that through excellence I purchase the opportunity for eccentricity. I may be thought a little odd by some of my coworkers, but they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my work is solid, and that I will keep their data safe, so no one much seems to care if I have a collection of plastic brains decorating my cubicle.
July 19, 2011 at 8:24 am
andreas.agren (7/19/2011)
Watch before you form alliances? Sounds a lot like prison to me.
I think all he's trying to get to is know who you're getting close to. If there's someone in the office that's a big gossip and you start hanging out with them before you have a chance to know that then that's going to affect how everyone else treats you. Yes, they may know that you're new and don't know people's personalities yet but it'll affect how they treat you anyway.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that if everyone else wears jeans then you should. But if you wear a suit every day that might not be the best idea. Similarly, you won't find me wearing a tie pretty much at all even if everyone else does but I won't wear jeans is everyone else is dressed several steps above that.
July 19, 2011 at 8:49 am
(joining late, I am on the West Coast)
I do appreciate the advice on dress code; however, it just does not work for me. Most members of my team are Indian ladies who wear their wonderful, colorful Indian garb... So for me it is just (boring) jeans and a nice polo.
July 19, 2011 at 8:52 am
It usually takes me about a week to find my niche in a group. Sometimes less.
In a really complex group, it might take as much as two weeks. Not much more than that though.
The key is knowing how human groups operate. There are laws to that, and they're all pretty simple.
The most basic is three parts: have Affinity for the group members, keep things Real within the group, and Communicate. (Abbreviated to "ARC".) Affinity is the willingness to occupy the same space, and the emotional reaction you have and you generate in others. Reality is the degree of agreement, and includes definitions of terms, policies, procedures, beliefs, et al, as well as dress code and other forms of conformity. Communication is the most important, and includes both inflow and outflow, verbal and non-verbal aspects, etc.
Everything else in every group of two or more revolves around those three.
The point about listening instead of just talking, has more to do with granting of beingness than any other factor, which comes under the heading of R in the above. The best summary I've ever heard of this is, "It's just fine to think of yourself as the most important person in the world, just so long as you understand everyone else is too."
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
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July 19, 2011 at 8:53 am
You west coasters are a different league!! BTW am an indian lady too, i'd appreciate some casual western garb atleast occasionally (jeans, shorts in summer) let alone colorful indian garb! Unfortunately since our location is where a lot of clients come in we can't do that or ask for it, business casual is as far as it goes....
July 19, 2011 at 8:58 am
Revenant (7/19/2011)
I do appreciate the advice on dress code; however, it just does not work for me. Most members of my team are Indian ladies who wear their wonderful, colorful Indian garb... So for me it is just (boring) jeans and a nice polo.
I bet they would get a big kick out of it if you came dressed in like them one day though. 🙂
July 19, 2011 at 9:12 am
cfradenburg (7/19/2011)
Revenant (7/19/2011)
I do appreciate the advice on dress code; however, it just does not work for me. Most members of my team are Indian ladies who wear their wonderful, colorful Indian garb... So for me it is just (boring) jeans and a nice polo.I bet they would get a big kick out of it if you came dressed in like them one day though. 🙂
Hmm... Halloween is coming... Thanks for the idea!
July 19, 2011 at 9:44 am
dma-669038 (7/19/2011)
You west coasters are a different league!! BTW am an indian lady too, i'd appreciate some casual western garb atleast occasionally (jeans, shorts in summer) let alone colorful indian garb! Unfortunately since our location is where a lot of clients come in we can't do that or ask for it, business casual is as far as it goes....
Yeah, our civilization's enduring insistence on uncomfortable clothing being the proof of competence and professionality ... of all the legacies of Victorian England to hang onto, why that one?
Last August, I was interviewing, so I had to wear a full suit-and-tie-with-jacket outfit. In Florida. In August. We are a dumb species in certain regards.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 19, 2011 at 10:21 am
I have 3 milestones I try to meet when I start a new job:
By the end of Day 1: know where the bathrooms are.
By the end of Week 1: get an org chart and meet everyone in your department. Also know your chain of command.
By the end of Month 1: have projects to work on without needing any guidance. (This usually occurs earlier, but you can count on it by the end of 30 days.) This is the point I would say I feel like I fit in.
July 19, 2011 at 11:14 am
Revenant (7/19/2011)
cfradenburg (7/19/2011)
Revenant (7/19/2011)
I do appreciate the advice on dress code; however, it just does not work for me. Most members of my team are Indian ladies who wear their wonderful, colorful Indian garb... So for me it is just (boring) jeans and a nice polo.I bet they would get a big kick out of it if you came dressed in like them one day though. 🙂
Hmm... Halloween is coming... Thanks for the idea!
BTW indian males do not dress much differently than their western counterparts for work atleast 🙂 Of course if you want to cross dress that is a different story 🙂
July 19, 2011 at 11:41 am
cengland0 (7/19/2011)
joe in the falls (7/19/2011)
BTW, 6-7 jobs in 8 years, is nothing to brag about! If I saw his resume, it would go in the trash can! Shows me he can't stick with a job or get along with others!You said exactly what I was thinking. That resume wouldn't get any further with me either. He would be here about a year and then leave. Our initial investment of hiring him and the learning curve would be at risk for someone that mobile.
This will depend on what the purpose of those positions are. For example, I've been contracting for 8 years. I have 14 different positions on my resume in that time, I tend to leave off small jobs and side work.
Some of those are little 3 month jaunts. You want to get in, do what you need to, and get out. That means interfacing with the existing teams damned quickly. The alliances comment I think is more about AVOIDING them then making them. People will always try to drag the new guy into 'their fight'. They've been dying on an intellectual hill for a while, and now they hope they're going to get backup. Any number of other things.
I'm sorry you feel that my variety of experience is utterly useless to you, however. It depends on what you're looking for, though. That said, I'd probably have no interest in a permanent position with a company that believes it's a problem. They won't pay enough, and want people who will slough through crap for them out of a sense of 'loyalty'. Until I'm invested in a company and care if it succeeds, you get what you paid for. One full day's work for one full day's pay.
Team interfacing though is a skill that we all should have, especially in tech where 2 year swaps is the norm.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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July 19, 2011 at 11:48 am
Craig Farrell (7/19/2011)
cengland0 (7/19/2011)
joe in the falls (7/19/2011)
Until I'm invested in a company and care if it succeeds, you get what you paid for. One full day's work for one full day's pay.
Am curious on how you work this out...usually companies look to individuals to demonstrate initial trust, rarely seen it work the other way around..where i am the DBA new or old goes on call two weeks after being hired, it is never really 'one full day's work for one full day's pay' or even if you state such stances you are unlikely to get hired.
July 19, 2011 at 11:50 am
Alliances don't need to be a negative thing, or cast in a negative light. Unified messages to customers and clear direction amongst team members can be invaluable in the heat of battle...as long as it does not become Group Think and Defend the Intellectual Hill Against All Newcomers Who Do Not Agree With Us At all Costs, there is nothing wrong with like-minded people working elbow-to-elbow.
There are no special teachers of virtue, because virtue is taught by the whole community.
--Plato
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