September 15, 2015 at 8:33 am
I had always used Eclipse for modeling ERD since I started using it in high school.
Regards
Mike
September 16, 2015 at 6:02 am
ERD are very useful if you have a database with constraints. But my current employer deems any form of documentation (including specs from the clients) as a waste of time.
I prefer to use an ERD for discussing database changes as a verbal chat always misses too much. Of all the developers I have worked with I would say less than half know what an ERD is.
September 22, 2015 at 6:36 am
I got this response from RedGate when I sent in a suggestion that they add diagrams to their product(s):
> I’m really interested in visual representations in our products, and as the product manager for DLM Automation it’s very much on my list!
>
> Can I ask what form you’d see it taking; do you mean a reverse-engineered ERD-type representation?
> Would schema documentation form part of it?
> DLM Dashboard would be the obvious place to make that available; do you agree, and would you want to see it associated with a particular build, a schema versioned through the CI/CD process?
>
> Thanks again, product suggestions really make a difference and we’re reviewing the roadmap for Automation Suite and Dashboard right now so the timing is great!
>
> Regards
> Product Manager, DLM Automation
412-977-3526 call/text
December 1, 2015 at 3:43 am
David.Poole (9/11/2015)
The whole point of these models is that they are communication tools and I've found that people generally want one and curse the fact that one doesn't exist but are rarely prepared to pay for them in either manpower, time and the tooling cost to do it properly...
Agreed. As usual understanding the benefits doesn't always equal investment.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
December 1, 2015 at 3:44 am
roger.plowman (9/11/2015)
...I use the ERD to *drive* development, not just to document it. That way the documentation never gets out of sync with the development database...
That is Agile.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
December 1, 2015 at 3:46 am
A lot of people overlook the value of any form of documentation to new starters and just leave them to muddle through or have to continually put everything passed the "old guard" (regardless of age). Whilst this should occur to some degree, I have often seen this a both a bottleneck and a single point of failure regarding knowledge.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
December 1, 2015 at 8:23 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/14/2015)
hakim.ali (9/14/2015)
robert.sterbal 56890 (9/14/2015)
So is this an area Red-Gate is trying to determine if they can do another ingenious solution?Great question. Red-Gate: are you?
No, diagramming is nowhere on our radar that I know of, nor do I think we would build anything like this. While I think ER diagrams are great tools, it doesn't seem many people see the need, have the expertise or time to build and maintain them, nor is there much of a profit margin here. Especially when there are so many free tools that provide drawing capabilities and could be used.
Personally I think things like ErWin and ERStudio are invaluable, but they're also expensive. I think those companies would be better served selling their products for $300 and getting lots of copies out there and making this a regular practice, but they don't agree.
Disclosure: I work for Redgate Software.
OK, so perhaps SSC and Redgate can locate an open source ER tool, setup to sponsor it, and start working with the SSC community to improve it. They could have the community version, and even a paid, supported version if need be.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
December 1, 2015 at 8:40 am
Andrew..Peterson (12/1/2015)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/14/2015)
hakim.ali (9/14/2015)
robert.sterbal 56890 (9/14/2015)
So is this an area Red-Gate is trying to determine if they can do another ingenious solution?Great question. Red-Gate: are you?
No, diagramming is nowhere on our radar that I know of, nor do I think we would build anything like this. While I think ER diagrams are great tools, it doesn't seem many people see the need, have the expertise or time to build and maintain them, nor is there much of a profit margin here. Especially when there are so many free tools that provide drawing capabilities and could be used.
Personally I think things like ErWin and ERStudio are invaluable, but they're also expensive. I think those companies would be better served selling their products for $300 and getting lots of copies out there and making this a regular practice, but they don't agree.
Disclosure: I work for Redgate Software.
OK, so perhaps SSC and Redgate can locate an open source ER tool, setup to sponsor it, and start working with the SSC community to improve it. They could have the community version, and even a paid, supported version if need be.
Given the hideous complexity of a good ERD tool (like Erwin or ModelRight) [to develop, not use] I don't think this would be viable. Open Source ERD tools exist but they're generally NOT very good.
An ERD tool is pretty much a CADD program for databases. At least the good ones are. The bad ones are fairly useless. Took me *years* to find one that didn't cost thousands and was good enough.
There's a *reason* ERD programs are so expensive.
December 1, 2015 at 9:18 am
roger.plowman (12/1/2015)
Andrew..Peterson (12/1/2015)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/14/2015)
hakim.ali (9/14/2015)
robert.sterbal 56890 (9/14/2015)
So is this an area Red-Gate is trying to determine if they can do another ingenious solution?Great question. Red-Gate: are you?
No, diagramming is nowhere on our radar that I know of, nor do I think we would build anything like this. While I think ER diagrams are great tools, it doesn't seem many people see the need, have the expertise or time to build and maintain them, nor is there much of a profit margin here. Especially when there are so many free tools that provide drawing capabilities and could be used.
Personally I think things like ErWin and ERStudio are invaluable, but they're also expensive. I think those companies would be better served selling their products for $300 and getting lots of copies out there and making this a regular practice, but they don't agree.
Disclosure: I work for Redgate Software.
OK, so perhaps SSC and Redgate can locate an open source ER tool, setup to sponsor it, and start working with the SSC community to improve it. They could have the community version, and even a paid, supported version if need be.
Given the hideous complexity of a good ERD tool (like Erwin or ModelRight) [to develop, not use] I don't think this would be viable. Open Source ERD tools exist but they're generally NOT very good.
An ERD tool is pretty much a CADD program for databases. At least the good ones are. The bad ones are fairly useless. Took me *years* to find one that didn't cost thousands and was good enough.
There's a *reason* ERD programs are so expensive.
Hummm...
Operating systems are complex, but we have several solid open source variants
database systems are complex, but we have several solid open source variants
word processing, spreadsheets, etc, etc.
No, the only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
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