June 6, 2011 at 12:24 pm
hello SQL Guru's,
We are being forced to implement EMC Legato Networker SQL Module. However, our DBA’s performed tests using this module, below are their comments. My question to the SQL Server community is, “Has anyone implemented this module successfully?” If so can you provide any details.
1.Lack of coupling between maintenance and backups
Not being able to ensure that all maintenance steps are completed in a single, atomic process is a critical flaw in the product. While not as big of a concern in the development environment since data loss is not as big an issue, it still makes us pretty uncomfortable knowing that corruption could occur between when my maintenance scripts run and when the backups are taken.
2.Lack of capability to automate the RESTORE VERIFYONLY process
This is definitely a killer. Pretty much every best practice whitepaper and article out there on the subject of backup and restore methodology agrees on this point: backup media must be tested to ensure it is valid. Any vendor who claims you don’t need to do this because their backup method is foolproof is either delusional or just plain doesn’t know what they’re talking about. No backup method is completely failsafe. Since this can’t be automated (at least not without messy workarounds such as creating a proxy account for the Agent job to run under), this would mean that this step would need to be completed manually on a daily basis. That’s too tall an order for this (or likely any) DBA team to shoulder.
3.Lack of script-ability
Somewhat related to #1, in that the reason we can’t couple the maintenance and the backups is that we were not able to run backups via a scheduled command.
4.Performance
Widely varying performance during the trial period, ranging from similar to standard to-disk backups to extremely long times (e.g. 5 minutes to verify a backup of MASTER, which was a 10MB database). Delays / poor performance in backup operations are a critical issue that cannot be ignored / discounted
5.Lack of durability
This was the best phrase we could come up with to describe the recent behavior we’ve seen where, for some unknown reason, the backup job succeeds, but multiple databases are not backed up. That’s an immediate and critical red flag.
June 6, 2011 at 12:48 pm
We implemented that module and I agree with those assessments. We canned the product and EMC is in the process of canning it too since they have new technology to replace it.
We had nothing but problems with it and moved away from it at the recommendation of EMC.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
June 6, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Hello,
Thanks for the information, great to know. Strangely, our internal storage team has not mentioned that EMC is doing away with this module.
June 6, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Alfredo Giotti (6/6/2011)
Hello,Thanks for the information, great to know. Strangely, our internal storage team has not mentioned that EMC is doing away with this module.
Yeah the Legato piece is on the way out. You may want to discuss this with EMC and ask them about their Grid backup called Avamar.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
June 6, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Thanks again, much appreciated. I pinged our internal storage team, they mentioned that EMC is not deprecating Networker SQL module with Avamar. However, they have a meeting with EMC’s Backup and Recovery Chief Technology Officer tomorrow and will post this question, will keep you posted on the outcome.
June 6, 2011 at 1:29 pm
Do you have any documentation that you would consider sharing with your issues/concerns?
June 6, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Sorry I do not. The company keeps a tight lid on that.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
June 17, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Alferdo,
We are also planning to implement Legato Networker for SQL Server. Glad that I bumped into your post.
Do you have any updates on how you meeting went with EMC? Are they going to deprecate SQL server Networker Module fro Legato?
June 18, 2011 at 6:46 am
Hello,
EMC mentioned that Networker and it’s SQL module are not going away or being replaced with Avamar. However, we have put together a list of requirments this module must meet. Below are the details. I will keep this post updated as we progress with further review of the module.
NOTE: we have another meeting scheduled next week with the module developer.
DBA Requirements
Durability/Reliability
Each Backup must be successful.
Any failed backup must notify the caller with proper error codes.
Scriptable
The ability to script using TSQL.
Consistent high performance backups
Backup speed must consistent in regards to duration.
Recovery speed must be consistent and tolerable.
Backup set verification
Each backup set must be allow for verification the file is intact and can be used for restores. (i.e. RESTORE VERIFYONLY).
Controlled by automation
Schedules must be consistent.
Consistent timing of execution.
Queuing is not an option.
Allow for consistency checks prior to execution.
Controlled by manual execution
DBA must be able to execute backups manually.
Backup Compression
60% - 80% compression.
Encryption
At least AES 128-bit.
Object Level Recovery
Capability to recover specific objects out of the backup set.
File Group Recovery
The ability to recover a damaged file
Secure access to backup sets from remote servers.
Dedicated storage device
Not sharing with any other applications.
Goal is to avoid any latency.
The ability to view backup progress.
Must be cluster aware.
Must be cluster compatible.
Below are a list of PROS and CONS to date.
I.Pros
Manage disk space.
Ease of use
File group recovery.
Access from remote servers.
II.Cons
Networker contention.
No Durability.
Partially able to be scriptable
Not simple.
Cannot use backup commands.
Cannot dynamically build TSQL.
Performance not consistent.
Unable to view backup progress.
Have to shell out to the OS to verify backups.
Unable to pass DBCC options parameters.
No object level recovery.
Every server needs a license.
June 18, 2011 at 12:01 pm
Alfredo Giotti (6/18/2011)
Hello,EMC mentioned that Networker and it’s SQL module are not going away or being replaced with Avamar. However, we have put together a list of requirments this module must meet. Below are the details. I will keep this post updated as we progress with further review of the module.
Awesome, I love getting different stories from different regions associated to a Company - namely EMC.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
June 20, 2011 at 7:24 am
Great help Alfredo!
Your lists are the sure add-ins to reporting documents for our pilot program.
June 20, 2011 at 9:04 am
My pleasure, I am glad I can give back to the SQL Server community. As I mentioned earlier, I will keep this post updated with our progress.
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