May 11, 2007 at 8:38 am
That article really doesn't discuss anything about ETL and relational calculus. I'll google, but if you know of anything, please let me know.
Thanks,
Chris
May 11, 2007 at 8:52 am
It does but your opinion is yours here is one about SQL Server Integration Services go to the Tranformation supported section it includes calculus operations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_Server_Integration_Services
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
May 11, 2007 at 9:00 am
I'm confused. The first article doesn't contain the word 'relational' or 'calculus'. The second article does not include a transforms supported section.
The wikipedia article on relational calculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_calculus) basically just says
The relational algebra and the relational calculus are logically equivalent: for any algebraic expression, there is an equivalent expression in the calculus, and vice versa.
I'm interested in how ETL is relational calculus, but I can't find anything relating the two subjects.
Thanks,
Chris
May 11, 2007 at 9:12 am
I have edited my post the correct section was Transformations supported and you link in my opinion is just plain generalization because in places prediction that is data mining related operations are required anything else will fail the required tests in place. Now what you choose to do to prove your point is just your opinion.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
May 11, 2007 at 9:48 am
No, no tool does absolutely everything. I was talking more about SELECT vs. tools like Informatica, et. al.
I tend to like to put things into a relational db first, then move them via INSERT INTO ... SELECT and/or materialized views.
May 11, 2007 at 10:00 am
Stephen,
Our conversation ended by you saying SAS is an over priced calculator, if you work for pharma your opinion is not relevant because about 30 pages of the 500 pages use case document is the raw calculus, that is for modifiying industry standard application developed with the tool vendor. SAS prediction libraries are FDA approved and Microsoft got 2005 SSAS approved.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
May 11, 2007 at 11:16 am
Gift, you continue to confound me 🙂
I have edited my post the correct section was Transformations supported and you link in my opinion is just plain generalization because in places prediction that is data mining related operations are required anything else will fail the required tests in place. Now what you choose to do to prove your point is just your opinion.
I'm not debating anything with you. I want to learn more about relational calculus regarding the ETL process. Neither of the links you provided in your answers to me address anything about relational calculus and ETL. If you don't have any information to back up your original assertions:
it can do calculus, here is what I know you can do with ETL transferring DB2 AS400 deposits to SQL Server on the web in real time, I helped a previous employer make 3000 excel spreadsheets disappear no human intervention required through automation in less than one hour can a SELECT statement do that? I don't think so
And
ETL(extraction transformation and loading) is calculus and I just gave you two things you cannot do with a SELECT statement.
- that's fine.
I was just asking for more information so I could learn more about what you are talking about - Relational Calculus and ETL. The links you provided shed no light on either. If I've misunderstood I appollogize, but I don't think that'sthe case.
May 11, 2007 at 11:28 am
From the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_Server_Integration_Services article:
Transformations supported
SSIS provides the following built-in transformations:
Which one(s) of these are related to Relational Calculus? Which ones illustrate your poing, gift? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand your examples.
May 11, 2007 at 11:29 am
(A SELECT statement is algebraically flawed so it is a mute point it can do calculus, here is what I know you can do with ETL transferring DB2 AS400 deposits to SQL Server on the web in real time, I helped a previous employer make 3000 excel spreadsheets disappear no human intervention required through automation in less than one hour can a SELECT statement do that? I don't think so.)
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
May 11, 2007 at 11:36 am
I am asking for somewhere I can go to learn more about that exact statement and the other one I quoted (both your original statements).
How are Relational Calculus and ETL related? How is ETL a relational calculus exercise? I didn't find anything on google linking the two. If you know of something, please let me know.
May 11, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Chris,
Actually you are trying to be difficult because, since I am ignorant maybe you should write the SELECT statement that takes DB2 AS400 deposits and load them to SQL Server 2000 for 5 continous hours a day five days a week or develop an application in less than one hour to put 3000 spread sheets in 100 database on the company network.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
May 11, 2007 at 12:29 pm
I'm not talking about your implementation. I'm asking you how exactly ETL is relational calculus. Don't care about a million spreadsheets, select statements, etc. One level up (theory), how is ETL relational calculus?
Neither article you linked nor any of your posts even touch on that. If you can't answer it, fine, but I thought that you could maybe back your assertions while you were telling everyone else they were wrong.
Once again, I only want to know how ETL is relational calculus. You keep misintrepreting my question.
May 11, 2007 at 12:41 pm
(One level up (theory), how is ETL relational calculus?)
I did not say theory you did, and what a feeling powerful solutions no six figures required.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
May 11, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Gift Peddie,
It is becoming obvious that, while you may be correct, you cannot back up the assertion you made - ETL(extraction transformation and loading) is calculus and I just gave you two things you cannot do with a SELECT statement. The research I did on google didn't reveal any information on your statement (ETL and relational calculus).
I don't want to drag this on any longer, so I'm not going to post anything if you can't back up any assertions you've made.
Thanks for your time.
May 11, 2007 at 1:10 pm
It is healthy to disagree I for one can agree with some of Stephen's points but I have to disagree with you because you are saying things I did not say and I asked you to provide samples of alternatives to move live transactions from one vendor RDBMS to another in realtime. Different strokes.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
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