August 6, 2009 at 1:57 pm
The one that says:
While there are exceptions, most of the DBAs *I* have met seem to fit into one or more of the following categories:
Conservative, not necessarily in the political sense, but in how they conduct their lives.
Stable, dependable, and reliable.
Family-oriented, who puts their family first.
Hard-working, doing whatever it takes to get the job done, and providing for people close to them.
Community-minded, often helping others and volunteering their time for various community causes.
People of faith, participating in their chosen religion.
In other words, DBAs tend to be mature, responsible individuals, generally the kind of person that you would want as friend, or as a next door neighbor.
Note the caveat at the beginning. I understand that your argument rests on the last of the six listed characteristics, and that you think it's non-sequitur to the list. However, by saying that, what you're actually saying is that Brad hasn't noticed this characteristic as a common point in the DBAs that he knows, since that's the actual assertion of the statement.
To prove your point, you would actually need to do a survey of the DBAs that Brad knows, find out their religiosity, and prove that it's not a common item. All that's been asserted is that religiosity is a common characteristic in the DBAs that Brad knows.
The other assertion, that, "...DBAs tend to be mature, responsible individuals...that you would want as friend, or as a next door neighbor." doesn't appear to be the point you are arguing against. Or do you mean that DBAs are generally immature, or that you wouldn't want one as a neighbor or friend?
To be blunt, what I'm seeing here is a knew-jerk reaction to a statement that many mature, reliable people, have a set of common social characteristics, including possibly religiosity. I don't see any valid arguments against that statement thus far. I just see some people taking offense at the statement, without actually examining it beyond a few key words.
If I said, "Americans tend to be good people, helpful and generous, sometimes because of faith", you'd probably have the same reaction to it, because it's a very similar statement. All it does is use Americans instead of DBAs. There are people I've known who would be horribly offended if I said that, because of non-analytical knee-jerk reactions to assertions that they read into the statement despite their exhibitable absense.
By bringing that level of analysis and reason into the subject, I don't expect to change your mind about religion. I do hope to make you take a wider look at the subject of what was actually written and actually asserted.
A point that might address part of the thought process on this is: I bet you've come to conclusions as to what my religious and political affiliations are, based on this discussion. I also bet you're wrong. Care to have you prejudices challenged, or would you rather be left comfortably unrattled?
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 7, 2009 at 11:11 pm
GSquared, you still don't make sense. There is no place in our society for religious tests, no matter how well its masked. As the author asked if it's baloney. Yes it is and so is your defense of the indefensible. No I didn't prejudge you about your religiosity but you're not leaving any doubts about your maturity.
August 8, 2009 at 7:40 am
sjsubscribe (8/7/2009)
GSquared, you still don't make sense. There is no place in our society for religious tests, no matter how well its masked. As the author asked if it's baloney. Yes it is and so is your defense of the indefensible. No I didn't prejudge you about your religiosity but you're not leaving any doubts about your maturity.
There is NO religious test involved here. Brad made an observation of the DBA's he has known. What the real question is, is this what most of us also see in mature DBA's. Are businesses drawn to mature people who may or may not have one or more of these traits.
No where did he ask if these traits are used in selecting DBA's. The immaturity displayed is not ours, but yours due to your lack of tolerance. I am more than willing to allow you to believe as you do. Too bad you aren't as willing in return.
August 10, 2009 at 7:25 am
sjsubscribe (8/7/2009)
GSquared, you still don't make sense. There is no place in our society for religious tests, no matter how well its masked. As the author asked if it's baloney. Yes it is and so is your defense of the indefensible. No I didn't prejudge you about your religiosity but you're not leaving any doubts about your maturity.
What religious tests? Nobody mentioned any! I'm not defending any such thing.
You still aren't reading what was actually written. Either by Brad or by me.
Must you continue to be insulting? Your response to just about everything thus far is simply to attack the person you're responding to. It's a very sophomoric method of debate.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 10, 2009 at 7:27 am
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2009)
sjsubscribe (8/7/2009)
GSquared, you still don't make sense. There is no place in our society for religious tests, no matter how well its masked. As the author asked if it's baloney. Yes it is and so is your defense of the indefensible. No I didn't prejudge you about your religiosity but you're not leaving any doubts about your maturity.There is NO religious test involved here. Brad made an observation of the DBA's he has known. What the real question is, is this what most of us also see in mature DBA's. Are businesses drawn to mature people who may or may not have one or more of these traits.
No where did he ask if these traits are used in selecting DBA's. The immaturity displayed is not ours, but yours due to your lack of tolerance. I am more than willing to allow you to believe as you do. Too bad you aren't as willing in return.
Lynn, after due consideration, I've come to the conclusion that sj is a standard troll. Every post is deliberately insulting, and ignores what was actually written in what he's responding to. Just ignore him. The usual "don't feed" is the best advice here.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 10, 2009 at 8:00 am
GSquared (8/10/2009)
Lynn Pettis (8/8/2009)
sjsubscribe (8/7/2009)
GSquared, you still don't make sense. There is no place in our society for religious tests, no matter how well its masked. As the author asked if it's baloney. Yes it is and so is your defense of the indefensible. No I didn't prejudge you about your religiosity but you're not leaving any doubts about your maturity.There is NO religious test involved here. Brad made an observation of the DBA's he has known. What the real question is, is this what most of us also see in mature DBA's. Are businesses drawn to mature people who may or may not have one or more of these traits.
No where did he ask if these traits are used in selecting DBA's. The immaturity displayed is not ours, but yours due to your lack of tolerance. I am more than willing to allow you to believe as you do. Too bad you aren't as willing in return.
Lynn, after due consideration, I've come to the conclusion that sj is a standard troll. Every post is deliberately insulting, and ignores what was actually written in what he's responding to. Just ignore him. The usual "don't feed" is the best advice here.
I'll have to agree. Especially after the PM he sent me this weekend in response to my last post here.
August 10, 2009 at 10:09 am
I just wanted to say that from an outside observers perspective, that I admire Lynn and Gus's continued professionalism in the face of what has ended up being a landslide debate. Lynn and Gus have continually kept the debate on track, in context, and backed up their replies with credible information in spite of the personal attacks and child-like arguments that they faced.
Kudos guys!!
August 10, 2009 at 11:52 am
John Rowan (8/10/2009)
I just wanted to say that from an outside observers perspective, that I admire Lynn and Gus's continued professionalism in the face of what has ended up being a landslide debate. Lynn and Gus have continually kept the debate on track, in context, and backed up their replies with credible information in spite of the personal attacks and child-like arguments that they faced.Kudos guys!!
Thanks for the support. I appreciate it.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 10, 2009 at 12:04 pm
GSquared (8/10/2009)
John Rowan (8/10/2009)
I just wanted to say that from an outside observers perspective, that I admire Lynn and Gus's continued professionalism in the face of what has ended up being a landslide debate. Lynn and Gus have continually kept the debate on track, in context, and backed up their replies with credible information in spite of the personal attacks and child-like arguments that they faced.Kudos guys!!
Thanks for the support. I appreciate it.
As do I, Thank you.
December 3, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Hi Brad,
I came to this party really late, but I thought this was a really interesting blog post worth further discussion - and I'd largely agree with most of the characteristics you mentioned.
I was surprised how many people misunderstood what you meant by "conservative" even when you clearly spelled out that you DID NOT mean the word in the political sense. Someone can be conservative with money, conservative in the way they dress, and conservative with their resources. So while I know plenty of DBAs who are politically liberal, independent, or moderate - I don't know any top-quality DBAs who aren't conservative about taking risks with their databases. That's what a good DBA does, they protect their IT assets as precious treasures.
I think the one thing I'd differ with you on is the "people of faith" observation. Ironically, I too am active in my church so I definitely fall into that category. I know lots of DBAs who are not religious in the least, otoh I've rarely seen a top-quality DBA who wasn't passionate to that point of religious zeal about something. Those DBAs that I've encountered who aren't religious balance it out with some other interesting thing that they really love. In other words, I think that they're very balanced people on multiple levels. Does that make any sense?
Great post and certainly got the ol' knoggin' working. Best regards,
-Kev
Viewing 10 posts - 151 through 159 (of 159 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply