October 11, 2014 at 1:50 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Document, then Install
October 13, 2014 at 12:32 am
There are many benefits of documenting an action before performing it:
You could almost replace documentation with tests.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 13, 2014 at 1:55 am
In general, I am in tune with you on this one. But a stray thought came to me right away:
Maybe it take considerable skill to imagine a system correctly?
That is: maybe many people install first and document later, simply because it is easier and faster to play around with little known methods and components the "trial-and-error way" until the system works. Then document the state the system is in (and thus "proving" that it can actually be done!) Maybe these people doesn't actually know whether "it can be done" when they set out..
Mind, I have no intention to decide here what is best or worst! Just making a point that maybe our hand is more forced than we generally like to admit..
October 13, 2014 at 1:59 am
Good point hjp. I would still argue that the documentation should still be created in advance and blanks filled during installation. Leaving it to afterwards is likely to leave gapping holes in the documentation.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 13, 2014 at 6:02 am
Gary Varga (10/13/2014)
Good point hjp. I would still argue that the documentation should still be created in advance and blanks filled during installation. Leaving it to afterwards is likely to leave gapping holes in the documentation.
Leaving it to afterwards also significantly increases the probability that it never gets done.
October 13, 2014 at 6:19 am
Maybe it take considerable skill to imagine a system correctly?
This is part of being a professional. It's also a sign of a mature community the computer industry is becoming.
Most of my work is that of a developer, on Microsoft and OSS platforms and solutions. Both of these communities have developed tools, either pay or free that enable both the documentation and configuration of almost the entire stack from the operating systems level to the application level.
Also with the increasing quality of "cloud" software like OpenStack, you can deploy a virtual server running specific pre-configuration on local hardware in less than 5 minutes.
The tools are getting better, so we as "Professionals" need to learn them.
October 13, 2014 at 7:47 am
To me, installing a system and then documenting it means that there was little or no planning for the new system. That's means that a whole lot of things could be missed (like trace flags, changing the Model Database default growth patterns and disabling GUEST, disabling the "SA" account, changing the initial size and growth pattern of TempDB, changing the default directories for new databases, etc, etc, etc).
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 13, 2014 at 8:41 am
Certainly things can (and probably should) change after installation. However, perhaps you should have some idea of what defaults you want. This is more the settings, am I using Filestream? Do I have standard drive letters and defaults for dbs and backups? Am I upping the cost threshold for parallelism? Lots of things I might want to set, or ensure are set at defaults, for installations. I'd imagine that a high percentage of systems have everything the same, so let's have templates that are applied, or compared, against the system to ensure it's installed well.
More and more I think the idea of next, next, next for anyone working with technology is bad. We should have a template that we apply against an installation and it runs. It's similar to the next, next, next thing we get in setup, but the end result of that should be a file that's applied to installation, not part of the installation.
It's also a template we can reuse.
October 13, 2014 at 8:49 am
Ed Wagner (10/13/2014)
Gary Varga (10/13/2014)
Good point hjp. I would still argue that the documentation should still be created in advance and blanks filled during installation. Leaving it to afterwards is likely to leave gapping holes in the documentation.Leaving it to afterwards also significantly increases the probability that it never gets done.
...as I said in my first post!!! 😉
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 13, 2014 at 8:52 am
chrisn-585491 (10/13/2014)
Maybe it take considerable skill to imagine a system correctly?
This is part of being a professional. It's also a sign of a mature community the computer industry is becoming.
Most of my work is that of a developer, on Microsoft and OSS platforms and solutions. Both of these communities have developed tools, either pay or free that enable both the documentation and configuration of almost the entire stack from the operating systems level to the application level.
Also with the increasing quality of "cloud" software like OpenStack, you can deploy a virtual server running specific pre-configuration on local hardware in less than 5 minutes.
The tools are getting better, so we as "Professionals" need to learn them.
In such a mature environment you would still need documentation. Of course then it might be as simple as "deploy VM x version n.m to server y in environment z".
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 13, 2014 at 9:41 am
chrisn-585491 (10/13/2014)[/b
This is part of being a professional. It's also a sign of a mature community the computer industry is becoming.
The tools are getting better, so we as "Professionals" need to learn them.
I would tweak this just a tab. This is part of becoming a professional or being more professional as we gain experience. And it also is a sign that the computer community or industry is maturing.
I think you are getting to that when you used Professionals in quotes. BUt I wanted to state it a little more clearly. We still have many who will default install and see what they get, or just run with it. We also have senior people who do not take the time to assist the new or inexperienced but leave them to learn/fail on their own.
We are maturing, and learning that "I" is not the answer but making "us" a success is. And we are not in this to get a better job., we are in it to do a better job.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
October 13, 2014 at 10:43 am
We also have senior people who do not take the time to assist the new or inexperienced but leave them to learn/fail on their own.
Anyone can install SQL Server or build a web site. But to do so in a professional manner requires training, study, practice and reflection. It's difficult to do without guidance.
This is why I'm involved with user groups. Not so much the local SQL Server now days, but many of the other technologies that I use on a daily basis. (I'm a leader of local programming language group.)
The best "student" we've had at a local user group is an older PE, (with a license.) It took him 12 months to learn a program language well enough that he has developed a unique high quality product, with source control, documented it and made presentations at regional conferences. A true professional in all aspects of the word.
October 14, 2014 at 1:04 pm
Some great points, but some times it all depends. is this a production install, or is it for dev/testing? If it is for production, then a repeatable, defined process is ideal. Still, over time, the system can change, and thus you may still need a way to document the current, now changed configuration. And if it is for sandboxing, you may still use an initial, repeatable approach, but expect it to change. I'll have to look into Finebuild, when i get some spare time.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
October 21, 2014 at 6:47 am
For documenting before and after works best. I need some documentation before to help keep me on my path. Then as reality sets in I correct the documentation.
October 21, 2014 at 6:56 am
Iwas Bornready (10/21/2014)
For documenting before and after works best. I need some documentation before to help keep me on my path. Then as reality sets in I correct the documentation.
Being pedantic, this sounds more like document before and during to me!!!
Totally agree otherwise.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply