Do You Talk Salary in the Interview?
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A friend recently interviewed someone in his company for another position. The internal candidate knows the salary ranges and the position in relation to their current spot. There was a screening by HR and an interview and then a follow up from HR with the candidate. During the follow up, the candidate told HR that the salary wasn't high enough and that they weren't interested unless the position could be moved.
Suffice it to say that my friend was rather upset. He'd spent quite a bit of time on this person and all of it could have been avoided if the salary question had been brought up informally before the interview in the screening or in the hallway. However, he didn't think the interview was the place to bring it up.
I've felt, or maybe just learned, that I want to bring this up early on in the process. Knowing the salary range on an initial phone interview or contact is something I need to get out of the way because it has at times impacted my decision to proceed. I'm not sure that bringing it up in the interview is a bad thing, however. If there's no phone interview and someone brings you in, ask at the end of the interview.
My thought is that if you've impressed someone, they might move the range. If not, then you both know this is going nowhere.
Money is a strange addition to an interview. Lots of times the person making the hiring decision has to make some decision on the offer, but it's not something they relish doing. Making a decision that affects the person's life is tough and trying to balance the value you perceive in this candidate alongside those existing employees is hard. I'm sure that's why most people like having definite ranges that they can fit a person into.
I never enjoyed making a financial decision for someone, especially determining their salary. My preference is to interview them and give my opinion to someone else to make the offer.
Steve Jones
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My 2 cents...
There is seldom too great a divide between job description and salary....a data-entry clerk will not be offered a king's ransom......anymore than a qualified dba with several years' experience under his/her belt be offered a salary that would insult both his intelligence and skills.
That being said - there are usually expectations on both sides and if they don't match it's bound to be disappointing for one or the other. My personal experience has been that if the employer is impressed with you they are quite willing to accommodate many of your requirements (in the past these for me have included part time hours, flexible hours and recently - telecommuting privileges). - on an aside - anyone who's tried asking for these should know that more often than not it's easier getting more money than less/flexible hours
IM(very H)O - it is "tacky" to talk about money when you don't even know if you're going to be hired or not - it implies an arrogance to some degree that I wouldn't like having associated with me. But then again - I've known as many people who prefer to lay all their cards on the table (including the "money" card) as well as those who find the very idea quite repugnant!
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
The advice that I had always heard i to not brng up slalry until they want to hire you. This is obviously more applicable when you aren't an internal candidate. I don't think that you (as the candidate) should ever bring up salary, and you should try to avoid answering any questions about your desired salary until late in the interview process.
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As someone that's had about 20 interviews in the last 6 years, I can tell you that I've seen DBA salaries as low as 65k and as high as 95k in Denver for SQL Server. And it wasn't all during the boom times.
Since most companies or recruiters don't post the salary range, I usually make sure to ask in the phone interview, but if they don't know or won't tell you, I bring it up at the end of the first interview. It's important because if their limit is 75k and you want 80k+, which happened to me, then it won't work.
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I agree with Steve. I usually asked what is the range or ask the recruiter to find out before even thinking about going to interview.
Let's face it, the reason most people change job is to get more money or flex time or vacation time. If they are happy with their job in everyway why would they want to move?
mom
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...most people change job is to get more money or flex time or vacation time..
sometimes they get laid off or their project contracts do not get extended....(something that may happen with my project in the next 2 months...
here's a list of why I changed as many jobs as I did in the last 7 years (& NONE of them was because I was looking for something else...)
1) start-up company folded
2) got laid off
3) contract got recompeted and went to some other company who put their own employees on the project
4) working part-time hours so they only allowed me to work as a contractor and not a full-time employee
5) my present job - the contract is to be recompeted (even as we speak)....and the chances are high that my company won't win the contract!
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
Personally, I prefer to wait for the offer before discussing salary.
I would think that the person searching for (or considering) a new job is intelligent enough to look at the job criteria and pick out things like the ever popular "competitive salary" or "excellent benefits" if there is no mention of the salary range.
I too have done some job hopping in this industry (one was even with the planned intention of getting my family out of the "big city" environment) and found that if you are straight forward with the potential employer and play the waiting game concerning salary both sides end up satisfied in the end. If they aren't willing to meet my needs at least we both know that the match was good but the money wasn't. If they really want me, they will negotiate and if I really want to work for them then I will also be willing to negotiate.
I think it is important to know all the facts about the job, company and it's people before you can argue about the cash!
Now - show me the money!!!!!!
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Hi Darrell - just out of curiosity - did you manage to get out of the madding crowds into the lush meadows of the countryside ?!
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
You betcha!!!!!
Now I have had the pleasure of listening to my older sons go from complaining about the smell of cow manure and the lack of things to do, to them saying - this place is cool - glad we moved dad!!
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G'day all,
I think the decision to discuss salary or not may also be affected by the nature of the relationship. In my case, I am a very experienced independent consultant and routinely pull down $150K+ per year. Today, I am writing sql procs. Nothing more, nothing less.
I use the salary question as a way to screen out shops that are looking for a body versus shops that have a real need and challenging work. The shops that are willing to discuss the question, and are able to afford my rates, have a higher liklihood of a long-term relationship than those who cannot or will not discuss the issue. If the shop cannot afford my rates then I want to save them and me the time of going through a lengthy interview process. If the shop has expectations that vary widely from my expectations, then it is probably a bad fit anyway. Either way, better to get the issue on the table and at least agree that we are thinking in the same space.
As I said above, the perspective of an independent consultant is certainly different than someone seeking full-time employment.
Wayne
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sushila,
Well those are the other reason that I didn't want to think about... It is not at your choice to change job.
I am a contractor too but working full time as an employee of a big company. Our contracts is boing recompete as well and I too told all my co-worker that I might not be back. It is the fact of life. I am not too worry about it, life goes on either way. Maybe it's good for me because I always work and never had time off besides maternity leaves and regular vacation.
Let's just live the life as it should be and enjoy it as much as you can and also I hope you save some money for the rainny season. Also there is another trick of living happy... even if both of you work, try to spend base only on one income
Good luck to you and to me
or should we said good luck to the company we both work for?mom
mom
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mom - you're right about not worrying too much...I'm (more than a little) apprehensive about being out on the job market again (have too much of a retiring nature to like the hunt and the chase) - but then again, must confess to feeling excited about not knowing where the next few months is going to land me...the thrill of the unknown I guess!
Ultimately, as you said - Life goes on either way and it's que sera sera...And Wayne....you're right about the perspective being different between a consultant and a full-time employee - there are also other variables that haven't been mentioned yet..the foremost that comes to mind is the culture gap...I've always found my American friends to be much more aggressive, confident to the point of being brash than their asian counterparts and as such their approach to many things (interviews, discussing salaries etc..) is quite different! Many of my friends make "wicked" money - it's just that I've never gotten around to discussing with them if they actually ask upfront about the salary range or if it is just a mutually conclusive happy ending to the interview process!!! Must keep in mind to ask next time the opportunity presents itself!
The bottom line - as Darrell said as Jerry said - "show me the money"!!!
ps: I have this theory (based on personal experience) that the more you shy away from money the more people want to fling it at you - I'm deadly serious about how well this Murphy's Law has worked for (against ??) me...I make a fairly unsneezable amount - the only difference is I've NEVER asked for it...in fact I go out of my way to tell them that I don't really care that much for the money - it's the hours - but they just DON'T LISTEN!!! AAAAARGH!
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
sushila - I have to agree with your Murphy's Law theory. I did take a substantial cut in pay to move to the country (over 10%) but it was for family reasons so it was worth it to me. But in time the money has regained so life is good!!
I have gotten to the point in my life were it is not about "Show me the money" it is now about "let me have a family life"!!!
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DSP, Sushila,
Well that is what we call a balance in life. I no longer have a taste or willingness to work 10 hr a day 6 days a week (dot com time). In fact I am happy at where I am. I would be happy to get more time off then getting a raise. I won't leave this place unless they layoff me. I don't think I make that much either but I don't think it is worth it to leave even if someone else give me 10% more then whatever I got.
I looked at is as the more money you make, the more money you spend.
mom
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Frederick Herzberg proposed a 2 part motivation theory back in the 1960's. He contended that pay was not a motivator. But that it could be a de-motivator. If a person was paid less than co-workers who were doing the same job employees would become dissatisfied and lose their motivation. Employee pay plans that are not preceived as being fair and equitable alienate employees with each other and management.
The problem for many managers is that they do not view people as individuals but rather as Henry Fords standardized replaceable part. The move a few years ago to empower employees was a feeble attempt to put some of Herzberg’s theories into practice. Most of these attempts failed, as they did not show immediate profits. Once again the focus on short-term profits has destroyed a movement that would in the long-run lead to higher productivity.
Mike
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