May 5, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Brad M. McGehee (5/5/2009)
Thanks for bring up this issue. How many of us "DBAs" plan to retire as DBAs?
See my earlier post about becoming a Wall Mart greeter 😀
In all seriousness, no. I don't want to be doing this until I retire.
May 5, 2009 at 2:23 pm
sing4you (5/5/2009)
My schooling doesn't really make much difference these days. Now, I'm wondering about whether getting MS certifications is worthwhile. Maybe we could start another thread?:-P
Now that's an interesting conundrum... the reason I decided to get the BIT, MIT, DCS was because I was tired of chasing certifications, and paying the never ending vendor training taxes associated with them. One or two certs isn't bad, but...
The IT world seems to be dividing into three tiers... carpenters (DBA's, SE's, etc), builders (IT/IS Supervisors, etc), and enterprise architects (EIA, EDA, CTO, CIO, etc)... and it seems to be evolving that experience will suffice to be a carpenter, though many venues are now requiring a 4yr degree. Builders look to be requiring an MIS/MIT degree more and more, unless hired from within. And increasingly, Architect positions are requiring a Mstrs + XXyrs, or a PhD/DCs + some fewer yrs. For those with 10+ yrs remaining to work (~20 for me), it's getting tougher to compete as a carpenter due to all the outsourcing, while builders and architects are not so easy to outsource. The trend will probably never reach n-complete :unsure: in this regard, but it's definitely a trend worth noting if job security is of concern :Whistling:
Dr. Les Cardwell, DCS-DSS
Enterprise Data Architect
Central Lincoln PUD
May 5, 2009 at 2:26 pm
They don't teach enough about database systems for a degree to be really relevant.
I don't have any degree at all (yet) but I have been doing this for nigh 20 years. Most of my college education was in Philosophy and Political Science which has been extraordinarily helpful in the realm of IT red tape.
If universities were to create a program for database systems, then maybe it would be worthwhile.
May 5, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Jeremy Brown (5/5/2009)
This isn't to insinuate that a degree isn't useful, rather to make the point that any degree is a big comittment to your career in general. I think we'd be hard-pressed to find formally educated people who make the statement that it isn't needed or helpful.
I would. I earned a B.S. Physics and a B.A. Mathematics degree and I haven't applied much of either to my work. Sorry, abstract algebra, complex numbers, quantum mechanics, and thermodynamics just doesn't come up when we're talking security, directory services, or poorly written queries. And with respect to analysis and all that, I picked that up in high school. Had to or I would have flunked out.
Yes, Jeremy, I know you know I'm an extreme case, but the bottom line is that I know you've worked with a number of DBAs who would say their degree is not needed. I know one who would say his mechanical engineering Ph.D. proved helpful because of the analysis skills he developed as a result, but you get the drift.
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
May 5, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Brad M. McGehee (5/5/2009)
malathi.mahadevan (5/5/2009)
Not sure if anyone has thoughts of retiring as a DBA? We are probably yet to meet people who have. The hassle of staying a DBA till retirement (to me) atleast is the demands of keeping up with technology and just the stress associated with the position like getting up at all hours and looking into issues. With a degree one can possibly get out of transactional DBA work into higher consulting decision making positions and with age that might be a necessity, not a choice, atleast for some of us.Thanks for bring up this issue. How many of us "DBAs" plan to retire as DBAs?
A parallel question is how many of us will be "allowed" to retire as DBAs? Seems like the longer in the tooth you get as a technician, the more most organizations want to move you on to management.
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
May 5, 2009 at 2:39 pm
lcardwell (5/5/2009)
sing4you (5/5/2009)
My schooling doesn't really make much difference these days. Now, I'm wondering about whether getting MS certifications is worthwhile. Maybe we could start another thread?:-PNow that's an interesting conundrum... the reason I decided to get the BIT, MIT, DCS was because I was tired of chasing certifications, and paying the never ending vendor training taxes associated with them. One or two certs isn't bad, but...
The IT world seems to be dividing into three tiers... carpenters (DBA's, SE's, etc), builders (IT/IS Supervisors, etc), and enterprise architects (EIA, EDA, CTO, CIO, etc)... and it seems to be evolving that experience will suffice to be a carpenter, though many venues are now requiring a 4yr degree. Builders look to be requiring an MIS/MIT degree more and more, unless hired from within. And increasingly, Architect positions are requiring a Mstrs + XXyrs, or a PhD/DCs + some fewer yrs. For those with 10+ yrs remaining to work (~20 for me), it's getting tougher to compete as a carpenter due to all the outsourcing, while builders and architects are not so easy to outsource. The trend will probably never reach n-complete :unsure: in this regard, but it's definitely a trend worth noting if job security is of concern :Whistling:
I don't know about those education requirements for architect positions. I think this is an area where equivalent experience will be accepted, especially since enterprise architecture is evolving probably faster than academia can keep up with. On the other side of the architecture road, I know a few folks who are infrastructure architects (I was one) and they don't have a graduate level degree (neither do I).
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
May 5, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I have to disagree on that, that the longer you are a technician they want you to move into management. Managerial skills are much easier to find than technical skills, especially niche technical skills that become environment specific. Where I work there are people who are technicians for 10, 15 + years same position. They do get pay hikes and the ones who want to move up go for PMP certs and so on but not everyone wants to, given the fact that managerial positions are limited, not everyone enjoys or has managerial people/political skills but those who want to have to try. For those of us who do not want to go the standard managerial way this is a real issue, since our skills do not even stay current unless we work on it. The managers do not have to work any on their skills usually.
May 5, 2009 at 2:54 pm
[font="Verdana"]Bachelor of Computer Science, majoring in hardware interfacing, networking, computer programming languages and operating systems (circa 20 years ago.) Only one information systems course in the degree, and that was more at the analyst level.
Learned Informix in my first job (which was "general dogs body just out of University, capable of doing anything and works cheap as chips") and never looked back.
Gradual transition towards architecture, design and business intelligence.
[/font]
May 5, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Brad M. McGehee (5/5/2009)
malathi.mahadevan (5/5/2009)
Not sure if anyone has thoughts of retiring as a DBA? We are probably yet to meet people who have. The hassle of staying a DBA till retirement (to me) atleast is the demands of keeping up with technology and just the stress associated with the position like getting up at all hours and looking into issues. With a degree one can possibly get out of transactional DBA work into higher consulting decision making positions and with age that might be a necessity, not a choice, atleast for some of us.Thanks for bring up this issue. How many of us "DBAs" plan to retire as DBAs?
I will almost certainly retire as a Sr. DBA, but only because I am so close to retirement age now. I took the job as a way to keep occupied with something interesting and useful until I decide to officially 'retire' and start working full-time on some of my other interests. I find it is a nice low-stress job compared to many of the roles I previously filled over the years.
May 5, 2009 at 2:59 pm
I will retire (if I ever retire) as a DBA whether it is Production or Development DBA. I love the work I do much more than I would managment. At least this is an interesting career.
May 5, 2009 at 3:21 pm
I will retire as a DBA in about six years unless of course something happens that causes me to lose this job!
May 5, 2009 at 3:24 pm
General observations as I wind down my day:
1. The value of a college education is not in the nature of the degree, but the kind of personal growth you achieve while in college. It's broadening in oh so many ways (not all of them necessarily good ones).
2. I started working as an operator at the university where I studied. Because of that position, I had the dubious distinction of being student, staff, and adjunct faculty (dance department) simultaneously. All I lacked was being employed in the Dean's office at the same time, where I could have changed my own grades (as if! j/k).
3. Some of us started raising kids late; I have the choice of paying college tuition as a divorced father of 3 or saving for retirement. Very hard to do both. Consequently, I expect to die on the job (and not any time soon!). Unless, of course I hit it big in a lottery. Oh, wait, you have to play to win.
May 5, 2009 at 4:21 pm
No to needing the IT or CS degree, or any other degree for that matter.
The need for a degree is for self-preservation and managing the HR dweebs in order to ensure career continuity.
A successful DBA is defined by a way of thinking. Logical, above all else, to the extent that Logic 101 is seen as a mildly absurd waste of time. An ability to immediately see the elements of a presented problem that are irrelevant, which indicates pattern management as a primary aspect of day to day life. Thoroughness, to the verge of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. A youthful Stanford-Binet, or whatever the current theories are espousing, in excess of 140. And the most difficult of all, the ability to dampen one's responses to a social environment to deal with the lack of bandwidth of the group average.
Oh, and no, I don't have a degree.
However, I can fulfill the role requirements of DBA, programmer, IBM sytems programmer, CRM consultant, dairy farm manager, fencer, farrier, shearer, truck driver, concrete layer, builder, welder, business owner, employee, husband, father, coffee gofer and a few others.
As could the average DBA if called upon to do so.
Edited to fix a typo.
Peter Edmunds ex-Geek
May 5, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Well I seem to have the least relevant degree, a Bachelor of Applied Science - Agriculture. I am an applications and database developer who does some DBA work. I got into this because the first job I had out of uni was with an agricultural services company and I was required to collect, analyse and report on livestock data. I had done a course using Excel and Access while I was still at uni so I had a start and then I did a couple of VB courses through that company. I then found a job as a software development consultant and the rest, as they say, is history.
I believe that tertiary education is valuable not necessarily for the course information you get but for teaching you how to learn, research, analyse data, think about problems/issues, and write (hopefully) in a clear and professional manner. The things I use from my degree are the statistical analysis, problem solving, systems analysis and research skills. I think my degree has given me a much broader experience of various business bases due to the applied science. I studied chemistry, biochemistry, genetics, physics, biology, microbiology, marketing, business administration, plant science and animal science among others. I even learn how to survey land and how to strip down a two stroke engine and rebuild it.
Having said this, I don't think you need a degree to be successful. My brother has just completed his first tertiary qualification, a Masters in Financial Administration, after climbing the corporate ladder. If you have the drive, you will succeed!
Cheers!
Nicole Bowman
Nothing is forever.
May 5, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Nicole Bowman (5/5/2009)
[...] not necessarily for the course information you get but for teaching you how to learn [...]
Well phrased there Nicole, though it strikes me as unfortunate that for the the first SD of the population this process is occurring so late in life.
Oh, you noticed, I have opinions about education defined as fact regurgitation, as opposed to education defined as pattern assessment.
Peter Edmunds ex-Geek
Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 181 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply