May 5, 2009 at 5:00 am
It's interesting how a lot of people think their degree hasn't played a major part. For me...
1. Without it I wouldn't have got my foot in the door
2. It leant decent research and analysis skills
3. Time management skills (I had these before, but they were more important here)
Having a non IT degree is not a problem in many circumstances; however, I find you do learn what you require, rather than everything! - So, if you imagine a pyramid you might only learn 20% of the base of the pyramid yet also learn stuff on other levels, even the top level.
In a convoluted way I'm trying to say that by having no official IT backing there are often very simple things you don't know as you have never needed to know them - but when discovered can save time and prevent you looking foolish!
May 5, 2009 at 5:24 am
I don't think a degree of any type is a prerequisite to being a successful DBA, but people in technical jobs tend to come that route, and of course nowadays its difficult to get past HR screening without one.
Its interesting that Brad asks what degree people have, rather than whether they have a degree or not, the presumption is IT people will have a degree, and I guess the really clever ones will have gone to university as a matter of course.
I wonder if there is a split between younger (under 40?) and older DBAs, with younger ones much more likely to have a degree.
me, at 18 I had no idea what I wanted to do in life so I didn't go to university. I got into computing by doing a government sponsored retraining course in programming (cobol and assembler using jackson structured programming techniques). Companies lapped us up, all those mature,responsible pre-trained people and cheap too! Knocked spots off fresh faced graduates!
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May 5, 2009 at 5:29 am
swjohnson (5/4/2009)
As my dad said, computers are to this generation what muscle cars were to his...a place to tinker and learn.
Now that is an awesome analogy. Your dad is indeed a very astute fellow.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
May 5, 2009 at 5:41 am
I don't have a degree. I have been to college, but just haven't finished.
I "fell" into computer because of college in 1978. I was studying for Electronic Engineering, and had to take a required RPG class. Loved it, took other courses, and ran out of money. After many years, I was working as a FoxPro developer. Went back to college, and challenged the FoxPro class, and came really close to the two year degree before life events again intruded. During this time, I worked with FoxPro and Delphi, against a SQL backend. Years later, after a lot of development work in SQL, I decided to become a DBA instead of learning (yet) another programming language (since the ones I prefer are essentially dead in the USA). Not to say that there isn't something new in SQL to work on, it's just that the basics are solid. And the new builds on that.
So, no degree, just a lifetime in computers, computer programming, and databases.
I have found that most places hiring these days want a 4 year degree as a minimum. Most substitute experience, though some don't.
While this topic is relevant, what I'd like to see is one about why companies want this college experience.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
May 5, 2009 at 5:49 am
WayneS (5/5/2009)
I don't have a degree. I have been to college, but just haven't finished.I "fell" into computer because of college in 1978. I was studying for Electronic Engineering, and had to take a required RPG class. Loved it, took other courses, and ran out of money. After many years, I was working as a FoxPro developer. Went back to college, and challenged the FoxPro class, and came really close to the two year degree before life events again intruded. During this time, I worked with FoxPro and Delphi, against a SQL backend. Years later, after a lot of development work in SQL, I decided to become a DBA instead of learning (yet) another programming language (since the ones I prefer are essentially dead in the USA). Not to say that there isn't something new in SQL to work on, it's just that the basics are solid. And the new builds on that.
So, no degree, just a lifetime in computers, computer programming, and databases.
I have found that most places hiring these days want a 4 year degree as a minimum. Most substitute experience, though some don't.
While this topic is relevant, what I'd like to see is one about why companies want this college experience.
Wayne,
I think at alot of companies, the HR people pre-screen the applicants, and without the degree, you might not make it to the hiring manager.
Also in Pharma (and anything regulated), degrees and certifications tend to hold alot more weight.
All things equal, the degree and/or cert might help you get the edge over a guy who has similar qualifications and experience.
Mark
May 5, 2009 at 6:10 am
I'm a film school drop out. No degree, at all.
However, to get past the HR check boxes, I do list the school I attended. I just don't list a degree. They make the assumption. But with 20 years experience now in IT, if anyone is worried about what I did between 18 & 22 (Naval Nuclear Power) instead of what I've done for the last 20 years, I don't want to work there.
For the record, no, film school doesn't translate to being a DBA at all, in any way. However, the Navy most certainly does. As a matter of fact, I suspect I learned more as a squid that's helped me throughout life than most people who have a degree learned in their four years of extended high school.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
May 5, 2009 at 6:14 am
I have a BA in Political Science, but I am not a DBA. I'm still trying to figure out where I want to be ultimately.
I was a paralegal and database user in the IP (Intellectual Property) sector of the legal industry. I found that most IT departments were pretty hands-off with regards to our db, so I took an Intro. to SQL class to learn to write queries. About two years ago, a provider of IP databases hired me for my knowledge of the IP industry and my interest in db. I have been working as a Project Manager, delivering our database product since that time.
The part that I enjoy most about an implementation is working with the datamaps, running queries and analyzing the data. I get all geeked out when a query that I wrote works, and whenever possible I will muddle through writing them myself instead of getting our DBA to write them. :w00t:
Regards,
Dave Fulton
May 5, 2009 at 6:16 am
I also do not have a degree. Life dictated that I start working immediately out of high school. I ended up doing data entry, then moved on to tester/QA and documenter, then to some database development, and finally to DBA. This has all been over a 15-year span, and I have slowly moved through the positions to get where I wanted to be. With some training and readings, you can be successful without a degree. The challenge comes when looking for a new job. I have been at the same place for 20 years and the few times that I've sent resumes out as feelers, I don't make it through the HR person because I'm missing the degree.
Have often thought about going back to school, although I'm not sure that I want to work at a company that is close-minded and not willing to accept experience for a degree. I've worked with many people with lots of letters after their name, and they don't perform any more than I do, often less.
Drive is important, along with a desire to continue learning day after day.
May 5, 2009 at 6:16 am
I have a BS in Business Administration. After getting my degree, I went back to college to become a teacher and taught in high school for a few years. The Internet Revolution was happening while I was teaching and I took on the task of constructing the school system's first web site. Eventually I was doing more computer work than teaching and followed that path out of the school system and into a job with a software company. They eventually promoted me to a developer's position and sent me for training to be a DBA. Now I have achieved Microsoft Certification as a DBA (MCITP: Database Administrator).
The business background has been relevant to what I do in many ways. The accounting concepts were crucial to the software I was developing and now for designing the databases for that software. I often find myself in a position where I must communicate with the sales force, management, and customers in ways that I probably couldn't without my background.
May 5, 2009 at 6:23 am
I don't have a degree. I was just thinking this morning that it's been 25 years since I went to a technical school for mainframe programming, which I actually used briefly. After an extended period as a VB, Access, SQL Server developer, I was hired as a DBA about 5 years ago and that's what I classify myself as now. I'd receommend a degree to anyone who might ask, probably in CS.
May 5, 2009 at 6:27 am
BA in Chinese. I worked as a translator for 10 years. The last couple of years doing that work I started to play around with some queries on a database we were using, then I started giving suggestions about what would be more useful for us. From there is took a few years before I got my first DBA job and I haven't regretted the decision to change jobs yet.
May 5, 2009 at 6:36 am
I have a Bachelor of Business Administration in Finance. I thought I wanted to be an accountant and went back to college to get enough credits for the CPA exam. Then I realized how much Accounting bored me. I took a job at a bank (with my Finance degree) as a systems analyst. Things snowballed from there -- systems analyst to systems administrator to project manager/business analyst to IT manager then to DBA. All in 11 years.
May 5, 2009 at 6:37 am
Bachelors in Computer INformation Systems and Camp Managment...
I think i use the stuff from the CM a whole lot more than the CIS degree to be successful.
May 5, 2009 at 6:38 am
This is the most ironic thing. Some of the best developers and DBAs did not have a computer science degree. On the other hand some the of worst developers and DBAs I worked with had a computer science degree.
It is not the degree decided what you are good at.
May 5, 2009 at 6:39 am
Grant Fritchey (5/5/2009)
I'm a film school drop out. No degree, at all.However, to get past the HR check boxes, I do list the school I attended. I just don't list a degree. They make the assumption. But with 20 years experience now in IT, if anyone is worried about what I did between 18 & 22 (Naval Nuclear Power) instead of what I've done for the last 20 years, I don't want to work there.
For the record, no, film school doesn't translate to being a DBA at all, in any way. However, the Navy most certainly does. As a matter of fact, I suspect I learned more as a squid that's helped me throughout life than most people who have a degree learned in their four years of extended high school.
Pretty much the same story here. I was in Music school studying audio for film (had some strange desire to be a folley artist), then joined the Marine Corps where I sort of fell into the computer field. Worked my way from help desk to network ops to DBA. Although I am currently back in school using up the GI Bill money that I paid into and I expect to get an AS in CIS in the near future.
-Luke.
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