Do the certifications add value?
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Braindumps are there for the paper certifications. They are useful for those who value the cert more than anything else.
They are the same people who assume that they will make $70 000 because they passed a couple of tests.
Bonne chance.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Generally you don't see that kind of behavior in a major appliance.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Just of of curiosity, can you give me some links?
Any idea on average passing rate?
Do I really write this
?Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Laughing. You could google Braindumps and come back with a list of them. Microsoft is very quiet about the number of people who pass against those who fail. They do say how many people have the certifications, but that's it.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Generally you don't see that kind of behavior in a major appliance.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Well, $125 isn't that much.
Just thinking, we have some budget open for education. Now I only need to build the bridge how this might improve my knowledge in my profession. What could be the gain for my company to motivate them to sponsor me?
Just thinking aloud:
Should I...?
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Any comments on the actual formal evaluation process of the applicants? Specially the first three seconds with the face to face interview!
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Nice to see you're back, Len!
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
quote:
Well, $125 isn't that much.Just thinking, we have some budget open for education. Now I only need to build the bridge how this might improve my knowledge in my profession. What could be the gain for my company to motivate them to sponsor me?
Just thinking aloud:
Should I...?
Frank
nothing like answering my own question
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bkelley/gettingcertified.asp
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
I hire (am looking for a SQL developer now actually, in Virginia), so let me give you one data point.
Post a job to monster or other BBS' as our H/R department does and you get flooded with applications that are mostly crap. I think a lot of people just broadcast these, and I realize there are actually job sites that auto-submit for you as though it was personally submitted.
Employers need some way to make a first cut. This is an unfair cut, since it is relatively unthoughtful. But it's really got to be made. So you set "requirements" for your H/R staff to use (who remember can't spell SQL) so you end up not being buried.
Some people use certifications for that, I tend to use experience and education and not certifications. I require a 4-year degree and X years (depending on job) not because most colleges do any good to prepare you for a job, but the pool of candidates that have a degree is more capable pool than those without. It's probability, and it fails for some individuals but it is absolutely true in terms of overall.
The same is probably true of certifications - the pool of candidates keeping up with certifications is probably a more capable pool ON AVERAGE than the pool that do not. So I can see some companies using those as an initial screen also.
Personally I look at that more thoughtfully, looking EITHER for ongoing certifications, OR ongoing and increasing familiarity with technology in terms of assignments and projects done.
What I try to exclude as my second cut is those that learned one version of one product in one niche. I value greatly people who are able to change smoothly across technologies or programming languages. Those overly enthused or overly stuck in one niche are a lot like a carpenter who is in love with a hammer -- works great for nails but when they try to cut lumber with it you get a mess.
That flexibility (and taking responsiblity for their professional education by broadening their experiences) can be shown in many ways. Certifictions is one.
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I think with an sufficient amount of spent time on learning and a certain amount of cleverness, you can get both a university degree and whatever certification you want.
Does it make you something special?
NO!
Don't know what IT business is doing, but in the financial area you'll meet many, many dumba**es with high flying job titles that hold PhDs ?!? (language barrier, I mean doctoral titles) or something else where you wonder:
'How the hell does this guy manage to get on his trouser each morning?'
Their affected knowledge and self-confidence can easily be destroyed by questioning their remarks. Hey, and that's where I really like to be the investor who has that money my opponent wants
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Sorry, my conclusion was missing
I don't give anybody credit per se just because of some might be credentials.
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Frank, I absolutely agree with you. I tried carefully to explain my rationale, probably didn't come through.
If I handed you 200 resumes, and you were hiring and busy, how would you deal with it? Would you try to carefully read each one, call the people and have a preliminary talk?
Or would you try to apply some kind of preliminary filtering? If so, what?
From my perspective I am trying to fish in a pool that is likely to have fish I want to catch. I don't have time to try every pool I find, so I look for characteristics that improve my odds. I'm always willing to learn better characteristics. I was offering my view that certifications were not really one, education and experience was, but I'm sure willing to hear alternatives.
But while I'd love to have the luxury of interviewing and judging each candidate carefully based on the totality of their experience and presentation, it just can't be done. You have to have some objective criteria so H/R can do a first cut.
What would you pick?
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We're in the process of hiring another consultant to specialize in financial software. We find it worth something if this person has a CPA (that's the US professional accounting certification), as we can just mention that to a client when they ask about the consultant's qualification to advise on accounting controls or to keep their financial data confidential. As our consultants are also encouraged to be generalists (and most financial systems we deal with use SQL), this consultant will also receive a considerable salary increase if he or she attains a MCDBA certification. Clients don't know or care about the MCDBA, but it's an objectively measurable achievement when one can pass those exams with no specialized courses or brain dumps. The MCDBA does not make the consultant a SQL expert (in our estimation), but the knowledge does make him or her more valuable to our clients.
--Jonathan
--Jonathan -
It's a classical dilemma I know. You must apply some filter, otherwise you can't handle it. And even if you are in danger to miss a brilliant candidate without formal credentials, in the end you do a good job when you have more winners than loosers.
And I can also understand Jonathan's position. As a consultant I guess first contact decides on success or failure. And what is a consultant for financial software worth that doesn't know something about computers. What about an FRM certification or is this too specialized and not your business?
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Incidentally, one other thing I've found useful lately, more as a second screening.
I go search usenet and the web for postings from them. Especially in more niche fields it is often easy to ready through a couple years of participation and tell if the person is an idiot, a blowhard, or someone thoughtful and knowledgeable.
Of course, with many they simply are not found. That's neither good nor bad.
But usenet and places like SQL Server central (if the damn search worked better) are a great place to research potential employees (and I guess at some point potential employers for those managers who participate).
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If you find someone, send a headhunter to contact him?
Frank
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]
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