August 30, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Im currently in a very secure job. it pays decently, hours are ok for the most part and im trusted there. The problem is that im doing the same work for the last 3 years without a single change and im sick to death of it. Im so sick of the stagnation that i actually hate going to work. I can do the work with my eyes closed, but its the utter lack of challenge that is killing me.
Im always 2 steps away from applying for another job, but then a few things stop me:
Recession.
Im permanent right now, and would get 3+ years redundancy if i was laid off. if i join a new company i have the whole probation period to get through.
Employers Market
As there are way more employees than jobs right now, im positive that many companies would be super hard on new employees during the probation, as they can simply drop you and pick up a new employee if they are not liking the tiniest thing about their newest hire.
Experience
Im a jack of all trades. i do a bit of building environments. i do a bit of sproc and function writing. i do a bit of administration, i do a bit of performance monitoring, i do a bit of SSIS dev, i do a lot of debugging sprocs.
As much as i have done, im not an expert in any field or area, compared to many of my friends who have specialized.This makes me initially not fully qualified for a DBA or DB Dev role. I think this goes against me.
Im wondering what has pushed you guys to leave a stable but boring job and jump into the unknown and take another job?
August 30, 2010 at 3:37 pm
The reasons that you've stated are all good reasons for leaving. Your concerns about leaving are also valid.
Have you talked with your supervisor about the rut you're in?
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
August 30, 2010 at 3:57 pm
WayneS (8/30/2010)
Have you talked with your supervisor about the rut you're in?
Many times. over the past 18 months that i have felt like im stagnating ive tried to be positive aorund my manager by approaching the situation from a proactive position. what i can offer if they help me develop and grow outside my current role. Describing issues within the job and potential solutions to these issues. solutions that I could work on and bring to fruition, if they would help me to offload some of my current menial workload. Supervisor pretends to care and says that we will have bandwidth in 6 months to start doing this proactive work. 6 months later same story. wash, rinse, repeat.
Ive also had this same discussion with the director of our Organization. Again, false compassion and enthusiasm, followed by false promises that are never fulfilled.
Im totally aware its up to me to make a change, but i simply cant, if i dont have any free time at work, and if my manager cant help balance the workload amongst the team to free up some of my time, there's little i can do.
August 30, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Probably a separate thread, but what's the menial workload? What do you do on a regular basis? I'd post that elsewhere, and perhaps see if there's automation or a way to change the way you do things. Many eyes, fresh viewpoint.
I am guessing you're in the UK. My take is like this:
I have left a secure job. I felt that I wasn't being as well compensated as I could, it was a private company, so limited retirement benefits and no stock ownership, and I wanted some new experiences. I'd love that job now, but it was time for me to move on and learn something new.
Depends on where you are in your life. Do you want more in work, or would you settle for the same old thing and rather tackle something outside of work? A new hobby? Depends on where you are in life and your career. If you really want career, I think you need to consider moving on, but do so in an orderly fashion. You can interview, or look for jobs, and not feel the pressure to pick a situation that you don't like.
I don't think that anyone that hires looks to remove that person for any little thing. Hiring is expensive. It eats up time, it's a pain, it's a distraction, and it can be expensive. Many companies use agents these days, and that's a lot of $$ to spend so they don't hire to fire. The firing decision is hard because then you go through the hiring process again.
I think your experience is good. Other than specialized positions that are in need of highly productive people immediately, likely you could sell yourself into most any db role. It seems someone always needs skills in multiple areas, and even advertise that. I would worry that someone that is too specialized won't be able to, or want to, help in other areas. However it goes both ways. Someone might feel you don't have enough knowledge of one area, like SSIS, or they're worried that you might not like doing it full time.
August 30, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (8/30/2010)
Probably a separate thread, but what's the menial workload? What do you do on a regular basis? I'd post that elsewhere, and perhaps see if there's automation or a way to change the way you do things. Many eyes, fresh viewpoint.
Winston, this is a good point, but it comes with a question. If the menial parts of your job could be automated, what would you do with the extra time?
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
August 30, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Is there any room in your current employment to implement new things / try new methods or sharpen your skills here or there?
I would initiate a pet project to improve something at your work and see how that flies.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
August 31, 2010 at 1:37 am
WayneS (8/30/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (8/30/2010)
Probably a separate thread, but what's the menial workload? What do you do on a regular basis? I'd post that elsewhere, and perhaps see if there's automation or a way to change the way you do things. Many eyes, fresh viewpoint.Winston, this is a good point, but it comes with a question. If the menial parts of your job could be automated, what would you do with the extra time?
Mabie menial was a bad adjective to use. Its menial for me as i can do it with my eyes closed. Im what the company calls a level 3 support analyst. There is customer support(L1) and if they cannot solve something they escalate to customer support L2. When those guys cant link the current issue the user is facing to an existing bug, or if the issue doesn't jump out at the analysts, the query goes to L3(me).
Its a legacy system that has been built upon over the last 15 years. started out as a simple DB and VB front end for 50 users. Its now a system built over about 20 servers, with a VB front end, ASP front end and various web service interfaces for customers to have their own custom front ends.
Almost all logic is encoded in sprocs, many of which are many thousands of lines long, and nested up to 8-10 levels deep in cases. Its also heavily coupled to upstream and downstream systems via replication, linked servers and other things added over the years.
When the L1/L2 teams cant identify an issue, its my job to spend hours walking through the code to find the problematic code. often its simply a case that the users dont know the rules of the system and i spend hours walking thorugh code just to confirm the system is executing the logic as expected, reverse engineer what the rule is to confirm there is nothing wrong.
When there is a bug we log it, discuss it with devs, tell them how we recommend it be fixed, etc etc. We then come up with a workaround to the issue by manipulating the data to push the logic flow one way or another(cant change production code adhoc).
We then attend bug reviews, where 99% of the bugs are deemed to be low priority or, because the devs dont understand the issue due to the complexity, its just shelved as it would take too much work. so now any workaround becomes a permanent fix for the L1/L2 teams to apply each time the issue occurs. as you can imagine the number of bugs is increasing significantly all the time.
Thats 90% of my work. as you can imagine, 3 years of walking through large nested sprocs to find mostly non issues can really take it out of you. I have learned lots i admit, how to efficiently debug, how to not write a system 🙂 , etc etc, but the learning stopped well over 18 months ago.
Its just a badly organized department, where new functionality( rules) take priority over fixing old issues.
As you can imagine there is little can be done to automate this form of debugging.
Do you want more in work, or would you settle for the same old thing and rather tackle something outside of work? A new hobby? Depends on where you are in life and your career. If you really want career, I think you need to consider moving on, but do so in an orderly fashion. You can interview, or look for jobs, and not feel the pressure to pick a situation that you don't like.
I have hobbies comming out of my ears! I thought that it may be a life change in a different area that i needed, but im sure now its not. To perk my interest in computers again i am considering doing a masters part time in the evenings, so i can start learning new stuff again, and start bettering myself again.
I am guessing you're in the UK
Close! Based in the Republic of Ireland. Right now the recession is having a huge impact, and its an employers market. despite having good experience, employers here want an employee that know about everything and can hit the ground running from day 1. IMO, thats not practical in most cases, but again, its an employers market and they are getting hundreds of CV's for jobs where once there would only have been a handfull of applicants. currently most DBA jobs going also want someone who will do SSRS, SSAS, .NET dev etc etc. I would love to have the oppertuinity to hit on some of these areas but if you cant get it in your job, you cant get experience and you cant get the new job. chicken or the egg issue, job to get experience which is needed to get the job.
I know i can study these areas outside of work, and i have done, but im one of these "use it or lose it" people. if im not doing it day to day it will fall out of my head, so its of limited benifit doing little SSRS projects at home after work.
Is there any room in your current employment to implement new things / try new methods or sharpen your skills here or there?
I would initiate a pet project to improve something at your work and see how that flies.
Been there, tried that. initially i tried to approach the situation from a proactive point of view. come up with areas that are really in need of improvement in the dept, come up with a way to resolve them and offer to take the project right through to the end. i need some bandwidth for this though. wasn't asking much, perhaps a day a week, or two half days a week. i need a manager to balance my workload out between other team members on the days i am doing the project before i can do this though. As usual, was told its a great idea and we will have bandwidth in 6 months. and again in 6 months, and again in 6 months....
apologies if i sound like im complaining too much. Ive just been trying to proactively work out of this via many of the methods you mention, but so far nothing has worked. i may just have to bite the bullet and move on.
August 31, 2010 at 7:56 am
winston Smith (8/31/2010)
I know i can study these areas outside of work, and i have done, but im one of these "use it or lose it" people. if im not doing it day to day it will fall out of my head, so its of limited benifit doing little SSRS projects at home after work.
One possible way to get the experience in other areas is to volunteer with a non-profit. This might work for you.
After reading what all you've described, I really feel for you. Especially the bugs not being fixed part.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
September 1, 2010 at 9:12 am
stay put
i know someone that left a secure job that he thought he outgrew for a company that was on the verge of bankruptcy. except he didn't know it. he was laid off in a year or so. found a job but it was far from home. he's OK now but it was a rough 2-3 years
September 1, 2010 at 10:26 am
alen teplitsky (9/1/2010)
stay puti know someone that left a secure job that he thought he outgrew for a company that was on the verge of bankruptcy. except he didn't know it. he was laid off in a year or so. found a job but it was far from home. he's OK now but it was a rough 2-3 years
That is a good point to raise. This emphasizes the need to do as much research as possible.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
September 2, 2010 at 6:32 am
That work does sound like it'd be rather frustrating to do every day. I grew bored at one company where there was no challenge anymore but I could have just sat at my desk and collected my pay without fear of being let go. So I started a slow search for a new job. Even just going to interviews and knowing that I might not have to put up with it much longer made it easier to get through the day. When I did secure a job I enjoyed the new challenge, but I was laid off 9 months later. Smaller company, because of the market they lost a few big clients quickly and had to lay 3 of us off. Oh well. The job market for database people is much better in Canada I imagine since I had a better one lined up pretty quickly and I was working again in a month and a half.
So yes, there are obvious risks but if you take your time and land some interviews with companies that are large and stable it might work out. Worst case, you practice your interview skills and that's not a bad thing at all. Good luck though.
September 2, 2010 at 6:39 am
Ian Massi (9/2/2010)
Worst case, you practice your interview skills and that's not a bad thing at all.
So true. Interviews is one of those things that I'm always a little bit anxious about.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
September 2, 2010 at 6:47 am
Do you have a family? It's tough to chance leaving stability and benefits for the unknown, especially in this economy and market and with fierce competition. That said, companies are still hiring (not sure about Ireland) and some are actually looking for people who are currently employed because those who have been out of work may have lost some skills.
You could use this time to really study and specialize in an area of interest to you, then when things turn around go look. It might help you with your current work, too.
I like the idea mentioned above about volunteering and it doesn't hurt to go on a few interviews to see if the grass really is greener; although isn't the grass always green in Ireland 🙂
Steve
September 2, 2010 at 9:39 am
i totally understand your situation...
did u try to talk to your manager about role change (maybe move up to L1/L2 support?)
and I agree with others that do go to some interviews to practice interview skills, get a touch on the trend and know what employers are looking for at the moment, talk to some recruitment agents (they know the job market more than anyone else i guess and occasionally they can help you expand your network)
learn something new keep yourself busy...there is a lot in life besides your (boring?) job
September 2, 2010 at 9:56 am
I left an incredibly "secure" job and I have never been happier. I like yourself talked myself out of applying for a new job for almost 14 months before I finally had enough. The first think I would stress is there is no secure job. that is the first concpet to change in your mind. At any point the security of your job could change. For every story of woe that someone has about leaving a "secure" job you can find someone whoe was in a "Secure" job who finally found themselves down sized write out of the job they beleived to be secure. Recently a company bought one of my old employers and people who worked for that company for 20+ years are suddenly out the door becuase the new company is moving the operation to another state. Do what is best for your career goals and don't worry about what the economy may or may not bring.
Dan
If only I could snap my figures and have all the correct indexes apear and the buffer clean and.... Start day dream here.
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