DEV - Execution plan IF there were more CPUs

  • Sorry,
    For the life of me I cannot remember how to tell the optimizer to create an execution plan as if there were more CPUs.

    I have some DEVs writing SQL who just aren't aware of the impacts of how they are writing their TSQL, but I can't remember the hint and am coming up with nothing in the GoogleVerse.  I know, the results are only as good as the search predicate and I am not doing a good job of it today.

    something like (OPTIMIZE FOR CPU=16),

    fail

  • Use the MAXDOP query hint?  That can go above the configured value as well as below...

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/t-sql/queries/hints-transact-sql-query?view=sql-server-2017

    Thomas Rushton
    blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com

  • No, that just tells a query it's OK to use additional processors in parallel if it thinks it needs them.  What I am talking about is if your development instance has 4 CPUs but your production box has 16, you can tell the optimizer to create an execution plan as if it had 16 CPUs.

    But thanks for taking the time to post.

  • Oh, there's a DBCC command to force simulation. Do an internet search. It's out there.

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
    - Theodore Roosevelt

    Author of:
    SQL Server Execution Plans
    SQL Server Query Performance Tuning

  • Thanks, Grant.  Found it.

    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF

    Great tool to use, especially with statistics exported to your dev environment.  For those reading this, it is an undocumented command, so proceed with caution and remember to clean up after using it:

    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF(ResetAll);

  • Davis H - Thursday, January 24, 2019 12:27 PM

    Thanks, Grant.  Found it.

    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF

    Great tool to use, especially with statistics exported to your dev environment.  For those reading this, it is an undocumented command, so proceed with caution and remember to clean up after using it:

    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF(ResetAll);

    In my best Charlie Brown voice... THAT'S IT!

    And never, ever, run this in production.

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
    - Theodore Roosevelt

    Author of:
    SQL Server Execution Plans
    SQL Server Query Performance Tuning

  • The trouble is that you can look at execution plans all day and still have problems because even actual execution plans are riddled with estimates.  The only method to accurately gauge performance is to actually run the code and measure the sections of code properly using different use cases.  I'll also state that if you actually do need a shedload of processors for your code to run quickly, then you've likely written the code incorrectly.  Heh... anyone that actually needs more than 8 processors should turn in their man-card. 😉

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.


    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Jeff Moden - Friday, January 25, 2019 6:09 AM

    The trouble is that you can look at execution plans all day and still have problems because even actual execution plans are riddled with estimates.  The only method to accurately gauge performance is to actually run the code and measure the sections of code properly using different use cases.  I'll also state that if you actually do need a shedload of processors for your code to run quickly, then you've likely written the code incorrectly.  Heh... anyone that actually needs more than 8 processors should turn in their man-card. 😉

    On that note, an execution plan that uses 2, 8, 16, or 9,000 processors will all look the same. The overall shape will not be any different because of differences in the number of processors. The only difference will be in the details of the operators. The system with 2 processors will only have 2 threads. The system with 9,000 processors will have, up to, 9,000 (yeah, I know, not a thing.... yet).

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
    - Theodore Roosevelt

    Author of:
    SQL Server Execution Plans
    SQL Server Query Performance Tuning

  • I am completely on board with everything said.  My issue is we have a C# development team who have been tasked to begin writing their own TSQL.  But neither I, nor my SQL developers have the bandwidth to do a "good enough" code review.  (SQL Developers are writing C#, too) As I am trying to help them understand good query writing and learning to read an execution plan, most of the time (after it crawls on prod), they always say, "Well, prod has more processors and memory than our dev instance, so it shouldn't have done that."

    Our prod box has 16 cpus WITH MAXDOP=4 and 122 GB max mem.

    I would like to build an instance on their dev box where I script out the prod database including the stats and histograms where we can look at the execution plans with something like:

    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF (1,4)
    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF (2,122)

    That way, we can all see what the plan would look like there.

    What do you think?

  • Yeah, that works. It's hard to convince people that behavior is behavior is behavior. It's down to the system settings and the statistics. In fact, I'd worry more about inconsistency in the stats resulting in plan differences between systems a lot more than other stuff.

    Make sure the Cost Threshold is the same on both servers (and not the default value of 5, for all that is holy).

    They'll stop sweating it after a while because it's just the threads that are going to show any differences at all (assuming all the other settings are the same).

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
    - Theodore Roosevelt

    Author of:
    SQL Server Execution Plans
    SQL Server Query Performance Tuning

  • Davis H - Friday, January 25, 2019 1:19 PM

    I am completely on board with everything said.  My issue is we have a C# development team who have been tasked to begin writing their own TSQL.  But neither I, nor my SQL developers have the bandwidth to do a "good enough" code review.  (SQL Developers are writing C#, too) As I am trying to help them understand good query writing and learning to read an execution plan, most of the time (after it crawls on prod), they always say, "Well, prod has more processors and memory than our dev instance, so it shouldn't have done that."

    Our prod box has 16 cpus WITH MAXDOP=4 and 122 GB max mem.

    I would like to build an instance on their dev box where I script out the prod database including the stats and histograms where we can look at the execution plans with something like:

    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF (1,4)
    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF (2,122)

    That way, we can all see what the plan would look like there.

    What do you think?

    Since your Dev Box has 4 CPUs and your prod box has a system MAXDOP of 4, the WHATIF stuff is totally unnecessary.  And, yeah... I totally agree with your prod box setting.  No one gets more the 1/4 of the total horsepower and that's my first rule of thumb for the setting.  My second rule of thumb is that if you have more than 32 CPUs on your prod box, no one get's more than 8, period.  We have a 48 CPU box at work and system maxdop is set to 8.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.


    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • Thanks, Jeff
    Our DEV box has 2 CPUs.

  • Jeff Moden - Friday, January 25, 2019 2:32 PM

    Davis H - Friday, January 25, 2019 1:19 PM

    I am completely on board with everything said.  My issue is we have a C# development team who have been tasked to begin writing their own TSQL.  But neither I, nor my SQL developers have the bandwidth to do a "good enough" code review.  (SQL Developers are writing C#, too) As I am trying to help them understand good query writing and learning to read an execution plan, most of the time (after it crawls on prod), they always say, "Well, prod has more processors and memory than our dev instance, so it shouldn't have done that."

    Our prod box has 16 cpus WITH MAXDOP=4 and 122 GB max mem.

    I would like to build an instance on their dev box where I script out the prod database including the stats and histograms where we can look at the execution plans with something like:

    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF (1,4)
    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF (2,122)

    That way, we can all see what the plan would look like there.

    What do you think?

    Since your Dev Box has 4 CPUs and your prod box has a system MAXDOP of 4, the WHATIF stuff is totally unnecessary.  And, yeah... I totally agree with your prod box setting.  No one gets more the 1/4 of the total horsepower and that's my first rule of thumb for the setting.  My second rule of thumb is that if you have more than 32 CPUs on your prod box, no one get's more than 8, period.  We have a 48 CPU box at work and system maxdop is set to 8.

    What are you talking about? It was so fun watching how a production server was using 16 or more CPUs in a single query and blocking other processes during hours. This was a data warehouse database with all the default settings in place. Thanks God I'm no longer working there or dealing with their "DBAs".

    Luis C.
    General Disclaimer:
    Are you seriously taking the advice and code from someone from the internet without testing it? Do you at least understand it? Or can it easily kill your server?

    How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help: Option 1 / Option 2
  • Luis Cazares - Friday, January 25, 2019 2:42 PM

    Jeff Moden - Friday, January 25, 2019 2:32 PM

    Davis H - Friday, January 25, 2019 1:19 PM

    I am completely on board with everything said.  My issue is we have a C# development team who have been tasked to begin writing their own TSQL.  But neither I, nor my SQL developers have the bandwidth to do a "good enough" code review.  (SQL Developers are writing C#, too) As I am trying to help them understand good query writing and learning to read an execution plan, most of the time (after it crawls on prod), they always say, "Well, prod has more processors and memory than our dev instance, so it shouldn't have done that."

    Our prod box has 16 cpus WITH MAXDOP=4 and 122 GB max mem.

    I would like to build an instance on their dev box where I script out the prod database including the stats and histograms where we can look at the execution plans with something like:

    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF (1,4)
    DBCC OPTIMIZER_WHATIF (2,122)

    That way, we can all see what the plan would look like there.

    What do you think?

    Since your Dev Box has 4 CPUs and your prod box has a system MAXDOP of 4, the WHATIF stuff is totally unnecessary.  And, yeah... I totally agree with your prod box setting.  No one gets more the 1/4 of the total horsepower and that's my first rule of thumb for the setting.  My second rule of thumb is that if you have more than 32 CPUs on your prod box, no one get's more than 8, period.  We have a 48 CPU box at work and system maxdop is set to 8.

    What are you talking about? It was so fun watching how a production server was using 16 or more CPUs in a single query and blocking other processes during hours. This was a data warehouse database with all the default settings in place. Thanks God I'm no longer working there or dealing with their "DBAs".

    😀

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.


    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • That was the first thing I did on day 1 here.  The application was extremely slow.  The MAXDOP was set at 0, so a query would come along and grab all 16 cps.  I changed it to 4 and set the threshold to 800 and you would have thought I just cured cancer around here.  I was like a god here for a week, until the next wart raised its head.  Which, as you might imagine, wasn't long.

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