February 9, 2010 at 11:14 am
Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)
The other problem is that the MVP is a community service award, but perceived as a technical one.
It's both. Someone who blogs 5 times a day but just quotes Books Online or is dead wrong is probably not going to get awarded
I know a lot about SQL Server, but I don't claim expert status in any particular area.
You said it. You know a lot about SQL Server and you can apply that lot of knowledge about SQL Server to technical problems that people have. If that isn't "high-quality, real-world technical expertise", I don't know what is.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 9, 2010 at 2:11 pm
It's both. Someone who blogs 5 times a day but just quotes Books Online or is dead wrong is probably not going to get awarded.
I know SQL Server MVP who wrote a book on design that does not know Views are Query rewrites and another who does not know all aggregates ignore nulls except count(*), I understand not knowing the reason for that is the aggregates are created for scalar value but a SELECT returns a Table but not knowing the T-SQL based anomaly is a problem. The person who wrote the worst book in Microsoft press history with almost 100 pages of errata in C# is still MVP in the developer division. There are some developer division MVPs who are not accepted as moderators in their MVP designation forums because someone must check their answers and post correction as needed.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
February 9, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)
The other problem is that the MVP is a community service award, but perceived as a technical one. I know a lot about SQL Server, but I don't claim expert status in any particular area. Nor would I be the expert to dive into a deep technical problem. Yet some people perceive it that way.
While I definitely agree that the MVP award is a community service award, I think the perception of technical knowledge can certainly be ok with certain individuals... There are many MVPs who are experts in their field. Peter Larsson, Gail Shaw, Adam Machanic, etc, etc, just to name a few. After all and except for some relatively rare cases, if you don't have tecnical knowledge in the community you're involved in, then you're not providing a service to the community and probably won't get the award. Like I said, there are exceptions to that rule. 😉
I also think that the MVP known as "Steve Jones" tends to underrate both his ability and his knowledge.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 9, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Gift Peddie (2/9/2010)
It's both. Someone who blogs 5 times a day but just quotes Books Online or is dead wrong is probably not going to get awarded.
I know SQL Server MVP who wrote a book on design that does not know Views are Query rewrites and another who does not know all aggregates ignore nulls except count(*), I understand not knowing the reason for that is the aggregates are created for scalar value but a SELECT returns a Table but not knowing the T-SQL based anomaly is a problem. The person who wrote the worst book in Microsoft press history with almost 100 pages of errata in C# is still MVP in the developer division. There are some developer division MVPs who are not accepted as moderators in their MVP designation forums because someone must check their answers and post correction as needed.
That is good to know. Not that you can write crud and have it published, but that there is a system of checks and balances.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
February 9, 2010 at 6:12 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (2/9/2010)
Gift Peddie (2/9/2010)
It's both. Someone who blogs 5 times a day but just quotes Books Online or is dead wrong is probably not going to get awarded.
I know SQL Server MVP who wrote a book on design that does not know Views are Query rewrites and another who does not know all aggregates ignore nulls except count(*), I understand not knowing the reason for that is the aggregates are created for scalar value but a SELECT returns a Table but not knowing the T-SQL based anomaly is a problem. The person who wrote the worst book in Microsoft press history with almost 100 pages of errata in C# is still MVP in the developer division. There are some developer division MVPs who are not accepted as moderators in their MVP designation forums because someone must check their answers and post correction as needed.
That is good to know. Not that you can write crud and have it published, but that there is a system of checks and balances.
That is just the most egregious.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
February 9, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are. Like the T-SQL Jeff Moden and Corruption guru Gail Shaw.
February 9, 2010 at 7:46 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)
Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are.
You sell yourself way too short. You've answered many technical forum questions that I just didn't know the answer to... guess I'm going to have to start leaving a note on each one I come across like that so you know. And take a look at your editorials... you can't just make that stuff up... it takes knowledge and a heck of a lot of research. Your highly technical abilities are just different than mine or Gail's. I do "nuts and bolts" stuff... you figure out what type of "bridge" to build and where.
I'll tell you up front that I could never write even a small group of editorials like what you do never mind having one or two ready every day.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 9, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Thanks, I appreciate the complements. Nice to know that I'm still answering a few that you don't know. I suspect fewer every day
February 9, 2010 at 9:29 pm
That's some of the small stuff too. There is the other things like staying on top of research for QOD, editing articles and reviewing them for content, and the podcast - that's quite a bit to contribute. I agree with Jeff and Gail - just don't let it go to your head 😉
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
February 9, 2010 at 10:04 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)
Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are.
Some people specialise highly. Some people prefer to generalise. The fact that Jeff and I are in the former category and you're in the latter (in general) doesn't make either better than the other
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 10, 2010 at 6:52 am
GilaMonster (2/9/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)
Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are.Some people specialise highly. Some people prefer to generalise. The fact that Jeff and I are in the former category and you're in the latter (in general) doesn't make either better than the other
Heh... along with the other good souls on this site, that sounds like the makings of what every team should be. A central "generalist" that knows something about everything and some specialists that central figure can draw on to get things done.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 10, 2010 at 10:37 am
Jeff Moden (2/10/2010)
GilaMonster (2/9/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)
Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are.Some people specialise highly. Some people prefer to generalise. The fact that Jeff and I are in the former category and you're in the latter (in general) doesn't make either better than the other
Heh... along with the other good souls on this site, that sounds like the makings of what every team should be. A central "generalist" that knows something about everything and some specialists that central figure can draw on to get things done.
So, does that make Steve our working manager?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
February 10, 2010 at 1:10 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (2/10/2010)
So, does that make Steve our working manager?
Heh... for me, that's at least partially true. He tells me to shutup when I get out of line, occasionally tries to protect me when someone else tries to install handrails on me, pays me when I write a good article, consoles me when I'm ticked, has previously assigned me a task here and there, gives me regular feedback, and has given me the opportunity to succeed or fail here and in the real world.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 10, 2010 at 2:33 pm
Nooooooooo, I was hoping not to manage anyone but myself.
February 10, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (2/10/2010)
Nooooooooo, I was hoping not to manage anyone but myself.
On that goal, I'll have to say "fail". 🙂
What you have is the classic difference between "de facto" and "de jure". You may not be anyone's "de jure" manager, but you are the de facto manager of a lot of people who do a lot of work here on this site.
And I'll have to agree that you do a good job of it.
As for technical expertise, I like to think I have plenty of that, but I also know for a fact that I don't do anywhere near so much for other DBAs as you do. So, you get an MVP award, and I don't, and I agree with that completely. Whether you have more, less, or the same level of expertise as me is immaterial in this case.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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