October 21, 2016 at 1:14 pm
I have never heard that SQL is dying. You are the first I have heard say that. While there is RDBMS I would imagine SQL being around. I can't see RDBMS disappearing - right?
The demand for RDBMS continues to grow as more businesses are data driven. By law (and this is a random example) all US healthcare professionals are required to keep an electronic copy of their health records. What used to live in a file cabinet is now tucked away in a database. The number of traditional databases will continue to spike for the foreseeable future. Heck - you are entering and retrieving data from a DB just participating in this forum.
I agree that understanding DB design, Indexes, SP etc.. is key.
Yes - and this skill is very transferable to SQL Azure, Amazon Web Services (AWS) and other hot technologies.
Do you have any tips on what areas of data development will provide the most demand for my skills?
It depends on what you like. No matter what, chase what you love - not the money! There's a lot of demand across the board for all aspects of the data world (reporting, ETL, DB design, etc) - which means there will be a lot of demand for what you love.
With the Big Data concept and the file system method of capturing it do you think traditional databases have had their day or do you feel that they will be around for the next 30+ years?
Traditional Databases aren't going anywhere.
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
October 21, 2016 at 1:20 pm
Ed Wagner (10/21/2016)
Phil Parkin (10/21/2016)
chocthree (10/21/2016)
All, I thank you for each of your responses. Much appreciated.Ok, here is the deal. I'm a little long in the tooth and have done some VB6/C# development ten years ago. I did work with SQL and SSIS/SSRS for a short time but then my company moved to SAP. For the past five years I've been on SAP BW and very much disliked it from the beginning. The problem is I feel I only know SAP now (drag and drop, segregation of duties) and have lost my other skills (SQL, stakeholder engagement). Why I haven't opted to leave before now - I don't know. I feel my old technical mind has disappeared and I'm now very much a SAP person:crying: I enjoy working with data (SQL, ETL tools) more so than using Java/C#. A thought is to train up again in SQL Development and seek to re-enter that area, considering it is on my CV I know what the job entails.
I am located in Southampton (UK) and am concerned about job security (and demand). Why? well SAP is not common place and I now have a mindset that there are no jobs out there, due to my experience with SAP.
I agree that understanding DB design, Indexes, SP etc.. is key. SSIS to me is a drag n drop/cofiguration way of producing code, with some extra functionality.
I have never heard that SQL is dying. You are the first I have heard say that. While there is RDBMS I would imagine SQL being around. I can't see RDBMS disappearing - right?
What I would like is job security in that I should always find work. SAP has scared me. The beauty of data development over programming is programming is usually a software house activity but data development/reporting can be any kind of company (ex SMEs and not necessary the IT dept either). Do you have any tips on what areas of data development will provide the most demand for my skills?
With the Big Data concept and the file system method of capturing it do you think traditional databases have had their day or do you feel that they will be around for the next 30+ years?
So I need to install:
SQL Server 2016 (which includes SSMS) - which edition?
VS2015 SSDT - which edition and is there a 2016 version?
Cheers guys,
Christopher.
You need
SQL Server 2016 (Developer Edition)
SSMS 2016
SSDT 2015 (SSDT may as well be called 'Visual Studio for SQL Server Applications' – it is a cut-down version of Visual Studio. There is no 2016 version. The 2015 version is what you need to perform development for SQL Server 2016).
I believe it was Ed Vassie that said he wouldn't be surprised if SSAS becomes deprecated in the next version, which I would find surprising. I don't think SQL is going away any time soon.
SQL 2016 Developer Edition is free and functions like Enterprise Edition. There's plenty of fun you can have playing right there.
I have to agree that no matter what toys and tools you're playing with, it all comes down to the database. I'd say to learn T-SQL and learn it well.
SSAS isn't just an analysis tool, it's an OLAP database that persists pre-computed and aggregated data into a compact multi-dimensional format. It's the best at what it does, and it doesn't really compete with anything other than another vendor's OLAP tool.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 21, 2016 at 1:31 pm
Eric M Russell (10/21/2016)
Ed Wagner (10/21/2016)
Phil Parkin (10/21/2016)
chocthree (10/21/2016)
All, I thank you for each of your responses. Much appreciated.Ok, here is the deal. I'm a little long in the tooth and have done some VB6/C# development ten years ago. I did work with SQL and SSIS/SSRS for a short time but then my company moved to SAP. For the past five years I've been on SAP BW and very much disliked it from the beginning. The problem is I feel I only know SAP now (drag and drop, segregation of duties) and have lost my other skills (SQL, stakeholder engagement). Why I haven't opted to leave before now - I don't know. I feel my old technical mind has disappeared and I'm now very much a SAP person:crying: I enjoy working with data (SQL, ETL tools) more so than using Java/C#. A thought is to train up again in SQL Development and seek to re-enter that area, considering it is on my CV I know what the job entails.
I am located in Southampton (UK) and am concerned about job security (and demand). Why? well SAP is not common place and I now have a mindset that there are no jobs out there, due to my experience with SAP.
I agree that understanding DB design, Indexes, SP etc.. is key. SSIS to me is a drag n drop/cofiguration way of producing code, with some extra functionality.
I have never heard that SQL is dying. You are the first I have heard say that. While there is RDBMS I would imagine SQL being around. I can't see RDBMS disappearing - right?
What I would like is job security in that I should always find work. SAP has scared me. The beauty of data development over programming is programming is usually a software house activity but data development/reporting can be any kind of company (ex SMEs and not necessary the IT dept either). Do you have any tips on what areas of data development will provide the most demand for my skills?
With the Big Data concept and the file system method of capturing it do you think traditional databases have had their day or do you feel that they will be around for the next 30+ years?
So I need to install:
SQL Server 2016 (which includes SSMS) - which edition?
VS2015 SSDT - which edition and is there a 2016 version?
Cheers guys,
Christopher.
You need
SQL Server 2016 (Developer Edition)
SSMS 2016
SSDT 2015 (SSDT may as well be called 'Visual Studio for SQL Server Applications' – it is a cut-down version of Visual Studio. There is no 2016 version. The 2015 version is what you need to perform development for SQL Server 2016).
I believe it was Ed Vassie that said he wouldn't be surprised if SSAS becomes deprecated in the next version, which I would find surprising. I don't think SQL is going away any time soon.
SQL 2016 Developer Edition is free and functions like Enterprise Edition. There's plenty of fun you can have playing right there.
I have to agree that no matter what toys and tools you're playing with, it all comes down to the database. I'd say to learn T-SQL and learn it well.
SSAS isn't just an analysis tool, it's an OLAP database that persists pre-computed and aggregated data into a compact multi-dimensional format. It's the best at what it does, and it doesn't really compete with anything other than another vendor's OLAP tool.
and the Tabular model is very hot right now. There's a lot of people investing a lot of time and money into Power BI solutions that run on top of SSAS Tabular.
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
October 21, 2016 at 1:40 pm
When the term 'Power BI' is mentioned I think of a visualisation tool. A tool that can hook into various sources (flat files, websites, etc..) and then produce colourful visualisations to wow the customer. I understand it has the option to do joins too. If this is correct then what makes Power BI special over other tools, say BOBJ, Tableu, and even the SSRS?
Is there something more to Power BI that makes it a cut above the rest?
Thanks.
October 21, 2016 at 3:44 pm
chocthree (10/21/2016)
When the term 'Power BI' is mentioned I think of a visualisation tool. A tool that can hook into various sources (flat files, websites, etc..) and then produce colourful visualisations to wow the customer. I understand it has the option to do joins too. If this is correct then what makes Power BI special over other tools, say BOBJ, Tableu, and even the SSRS?Is there something more to Power BI that makes it a cut above the rest?
Thanks.
I have never done any PowerBI developnent but I know its popular - a lot of people are moving to it. I've seen it and it's very slick.
PowerBI is Microsoft's answer to Tableau which is much slicker than SSRS IMHO. An SSRS report designed today looks like it was developed in 2006; a PowerBI report looks slick and current.
I'm not belittling SSRS, it's solid, easy to work with and there's a large army of people who know how to use it. It's just dated. For a report that shows a world map that you can hover over for details and easily drill into for a heat map with your top sales by region... PowerBI is the way to go. You can do that stuff in SSRS but it's much harder.
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
October 21, 2016 at 3:56 pm
Power BI is, to some degree, like Microsoft took all the PowerPivot/tabular tools out of Excel and put them in a standalone application. You can use it for data modeling, lightweight integration, and then presentation (the reports). And if you get a really complex system, you can upgrade it to SSAS tabular... which you would need if you wanted data security.
October 28, 2016 at 7:33 am
It is all about the data!
It doesn't really matter what presentation tool you are using if the underlying data is not sound. 3NF has not changed in 30 years and it is unlikely to change in the next 30. The maths and theory behind optimising data for OLTP and OLAP is sound and a thorough understanding of
how to think is sets will stand you in good stead.
no-sql databases are good for some scenarios but most business applications will still need RDBMS
November 14, 2016 at 12:12 pm
Thanks for all your replies. Really appreciated.
I have installed the 2016 version of the SQL Server software (as stated in previous posts). I am having trouble finding training videos for the 2016 version of the software.
Do you you feel it is suitable to watch 2012 versions of the training videos using the 2016 software, or do you feel I should concentrate on finding 2016 training videos only and forget any 2012 training material I may have?
I ask this as I am not sure if watching 2012 training material using 2016 software will be detrimental/harmful to my learning (i.e. teaching me bad habits)?
Thanks.
November 14, 2016 at 12:31 pm
I suggest you use the most recent training material you can find.
There is very little that was in SQL 2012 that is not in SQL 2016, the main changes are a) native remote connection is now ODBC rather than OLDB b) There is an upgrade path to replace database mirroring with simple availability groups.
There is a lot that is new in SQL 2016, such as a) Column-store data format (major item!), b) PolyBase, c) R language support, d) JSON support, d) Column-store data format, f) everything else I have not mentioned..., so it would be useful to find training on these but there is very little harm that using SQL 2012 training material will give you.
Original author: https://github.com/SQL-FineBuild/Common/wiki/ 1-click install and best practice configuration of SQL Server 2019, 2017 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 R2, 2008 and 2005.
When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor they call me a communist - Archbishop Hélder Câmara
November 15, 2016 at 5:28 am
Jeff Moden (10/18/2016)
Just to throw my opinion into the ring...I've been tremendously successful and I barely know how to spell SSIS, SSDT, SSAS, SSRS, or any of the other 4 letter words in SQL Server. The key is to have a really good knowledge of how tables and indexes work and how to write some really good T-SQL especially in the form of stored procedures and the right kind of functions. Knowing how to write code in just a minute or so to generate a million row test table in just a couple of seconds has been the key to that key.
It is handy to know how to use the 4 letter words but you'll shine like the sun if you're really good at T-SQL because a lot of what those things do can be greatly improved and sometimes replaced by T-SQL.
You may have heard that the demand for people that know T-SQL isn't that great and that it might even becoming less of a demand. I can tell you from personal experience that I've been hearing the same thing for the last 20 years but have experienced quite the opposite.
Remember that everything comes back to where the data is stored... E-v-e-r-y-t-h-I-n-g.
I just thought I would throw a bit into this bag as well.....
Just to reinforce what Jeff said and to Highlight a mistake I made.....
When I started off with BI I installed the clicker Tools (SSRS, SSIS etc;) and thought moving objects around was enough. It really isn't. If you don't understand the underlying logic that is the TSQL then you can't call yourself a BI-Developer.
From my own experience, understanding the SQL Server itself is also fundamental to a developer. Learn about how a database is constructed, what an index is and how it is used, and how your Transaction (first of all understanding what a Transaction is) manipulates data within the Environment. It is a long process of learning that never stops....
November 16, 2016 at 10:15 am
chocthree (11/14/2016)
Thanks for all your replies. Really appreciated.I have installed the 2016 version of the SQL Server software (as stated in previous posts). I am having trouble finding training videos for the 2016 version of the software.
Do you you feel it is suitable to watch 2012 versions of the training videos using the 2016 software, or do you feel I should concentrate on finding 2016 training videos only and forget any 2012 training material I may have?
I ask this as I am not sure if watching 2012 training material using 2016 software will be detrimental/harmful to my learning (i.e. teaching me bad habits)?
Thanks.
It won't be detrimental as versions build on themselves. Sometimes the earlier versions explain things better since they spend more time on the stuff that was newer back then. Once you are solid on the basics, by that time, there may be more videos on 2016 and its functions. I have always been a traditionalist in that I like to read books. Pick one that comes with a CD of chapter end exercises so that you can practice the material and not just read about it.
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November 18, 2016 at 2:08 am
It won't be detrimental as versions build on themselves. Sometimes the earlier versions explain things better since they spend more time on the stuff that was newer back then. Once you are solid on the basics, by that time, there may be more videos on 2016 and its functions. I have always been a traditionalist in that I like to read books. Pick one that comes with a CD of chapter end exercises so that you can practice the material and not just read about it.
Do you have a suggestion for a good SQL Server 2016 book from a developers point of view (not DBA focused), and preferably one that makes use of a database such as Adventure Works?
The only one I've found which is aimed at my needs (i.e. starting from scratch and building an indepth knowledge) is the following:
In the past I've read Apress, Wrox, Microsoft Publishing, etc.. books. I like book with good visuals, hence my leaning towards videos.
For example, I have the Beginning T-SQL 2008 (and its 2005 too) Wrox book (the red cover). I'm wondering if this book is too old to use with SQL Server 2016 software. I read somewhere that a new version of SQL came out in 2011. I can't remember where I read that though.
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