Decouple the Tools

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Decouple the Tools

Steve Jones - SSC Editor

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March 3, 2018 at 1:25 pm

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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Decouple the Tools

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Thomas Franz Hall of Fame Points: 3897 More actions · Answer 1

I'd guess that there are a lot of small and big shops out there, which uses bcp and sqlcmd regulary (e.g. bcp for simple import / export tasks where SSIS is just to big and clumsy and sqlcmd.exe for the default jobs created by Ola's maintenance solution) as server tools. Having them to be installed separate would slightly increase the security (when they are NOT installed) but could cause trouble too (when forgotten to install) and decrease security (when you miss a critical security hotfix for them, while you always install the latest CUs for the SQL Server main installation).

Of course it would be nice to have "regular" import/export routines, which does not need to use external tools or legacy stuff as the Ole Automations.

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David.Poole SSC Guru Points: 76035 More actions · Answer 2

I think bcp could do with enhancements. As a high speed import/export tool it has served me well. The ability to handle parquet/Orc files would be fantastic. Far more cross platform data exchange takes place these days as the love affair with data lakes continues

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Cary Hower-563110 Say Hey Kid Points: 662 More actions · Answer 3

From a strictly product point of view I can understand and even agree with the decoupling. However, for those of us who have to maintain SQL Server instances that cannot connect to the Internet, this is becoming a major pain. I would like Microsoft to be more aware of those of us that don't have access to the Internet and consider an alternate delivery mechanism.

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736494 More actions · Answer 4

Cary Hower-563110 - Monday, March 5, 2018 5:34 AM
From a strictly product point of view I can understand and even agree with the decoupling. However, for those of us who have to maintain SQL Server instances that cannot connect to the Internet, this is becoming a major pain. I would like Microsoft to be more aware of those of us that don't have access to the Internet and consider an alternate delivery mechanism.

They should have offline, easier to install mechanisms, I agree.

ddodge2 Mr or Mrs. 500 Points: 599 More actions · Answer 5

Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Monday, March 5, 2018 6:45 AM
Cary Hower-563110 - Monday, March 5, 2018 5:34 AM
From a strictly product point of view I can understand and even agree with the decoupling. However, for those of us who have to maintain SQL Server instances that cannot connect to the Internet, this is becoming a major pain. I would like Microsoft to be more aware of those of us that don't have access to the Internet and consider an alternate delivery mechanism.
They should have offline, easier to install mechanisms, I agree.

Curious about what sort of approach folks are thinking of here. Cory mentioned being 'offline' and my suspicion, being the too-literal thinker I tend to be :), is that this would not mean DVDs but rather a controlled download from a secure location. I was thinking that some sort of 'widget' could monitor versions and provide suggestions or something similar.

In other words, what practical approaches would work?

Rod at work SSC-Dedicated Points: 34017 More actions · Answer 6

FWIW, I haven't been able to run Books Online in quite a while. Guess I'm one of those whose still having problems getting that to work.

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sknox SSChampion Points: 12388 More actions · Answer 7

David.Poole - Monday, March 5, 2018 1:31 AM
I think bcp could do with enhancements. As a high speed import/export tool it has served me well. The ability to handle parquet/Orc files would be fantastic. Far more cross platform data exchange takes place these days as the love affair with data lakes continues

The major reason bcp is high-speed is because it is focused on a specific pipeline between a specific set of potential input/output formats.
SSIS is what you want for more formats or a customized pipeline. In my experience, a well-designed SSIS package can be as efficient as bcp in terms of raw performance, while providing more complete error and performance logging.
Having said that, what I'd really like is a BCP native-format file source/destination for SSIS.

Chris Harshman SSC-Forever Points: 42192 More actions · Answer 8

Sometimes they've decoupled too much. For example, I recently had to rename an Analysis Services instance for SQL Server 2016. It's actually a fairly easy thing to do, but unfortunately the tool to do that is bundled with Management Studio, which wasn't installed on the server, so I had to install that client side program first to get the server side tool :hehe:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/analysis-services/instances/rename-an-analysis-services-instance

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736494 More actions · Answer 9

Chris Harshman - Monday, March 5, 2018 10:51 AM
Sometimes they've decoupled too much. For example, I recently had to rename an Analysis Services instance for SQL Server 2016. It's actually a fairly easy thing to do, but unfortunately the tool to do that is bundled with Management Studio, which wasn't installed on the server, so I had to install that client side program first to get the server side tool :hehe:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/analysis-services/instances/rename-an-analysis-services-instance

Why install the client tool on the server? Can no clients connect to the server? Or does this change only local instances? Either way, decoupling still makes sense. Install the client tool if you need it. I'd prefer the client tools be separate as well, so that if you need the SSAS tool, you don't need everything else.

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736494 More actions · Answer 10

ddodge2 - Monday, March 5, 2018 8:54 AM
Curious about what sort of approach folks are thinking of here. Cory mentioned being 'offline' and my suspicion, being the too-literal thinker I tend to be :), is that this would not mean DVDs but rather a controlled download from a secure location. I was thinking that some sort of 'widget' could monitor versions and provide suggestions or something similar.
In other words, what practical approaches would work?

Standlone, CLI installer. Download something, copy to server, run install. Avoid GUI for server systems and to ensure automation.

ddodge2 Mr or Mrs. 500 Points: 599 More actions · Answer 11

Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Monday, March 5, 2018 2:47 PM
ddodge2 - Monday, March 5, 2018 8:54 AM
Curious about what sort of approach folks are thinking of here. Cory mentioned being 'offline' and my suspicion, being the too-literal thinker I tend to be :), is that this would not mean DVDs but rather a controlled download from a secure location. I was thinking that some sort of 'widget' could monitor versions and provide suggestions or something similar.
In other words, what practical approaches would work?
Standlone, CLI installer. Download something, copy to server, run install. Avoid GUI for server systems and to ensure automation.

Steve,

Thanks for the feedback. One additional question if you wouldn't mind... I have, on one occasion, had to jury-rig an SSIS process due to an absence of Active Directory Services being installed. Any general observations in this area? I know there are several ways around this issue and a LOT depends on security needs. So, just curious to see what you, and maybe some of the others, might think.

Thank you,

Doug

Chris Harshman SSC-Forever Points: 42192 More actions · Answer 12

I had to install Management Studio on the server, because it has a server tool asinstancerename.exe bundled in it to rename an Analysis Services instance. When they stripped SSMS from the main SQL Server install set they took that with it, so when I went to look for it, it wasn't on my 2016 server.

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736494 More actions · Answer 13

ddodge2 - Monday, March 5, 2018 3:06 PM
Steve,
Thanks for the feedback. One additional question if you wouldn't mind... I have, on one occasion, had to jury-rig an SSIS process due to an absence of Active Directory Services being installed. Any general observations in this area? I know there are several ways around this issue and a LOT depends on security needs. So, just curious to see what you, and maybe some of the others, might think.
Thank you,
Doug

Not sure what you mean here. Are you asking something in relation to security with SSIS or about having separate tools?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736494 More actions · Answer 14

Chris Harshman - Monday, March 5, 2018 3:13 PM
I had to install Management Studio on the server, because it has a server tool asinstancerename.exe bundled in it to rename an Analysis Services instance. When they stripped SSMS from the main SQL Server install set they took that with it, so when I went to look for it, it wasn't on my 2016 server.

I get that, it's a decision where the tool goes, but still, no clients have network connectivity or this tool requires installation on the server? If it's the latter, then that's a poor business decision as we shouldn't require SSMS on a server.