June 19, 2021 at 12:00 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Deceptive Visualizations
June 19, 2021 at 3:09 pm
This "little" trick-of-the-trade is usually pretty obvious to folks that work with and have to analyze data a lot but it really is deceptive to the general public whether it was intended to be deceptive or not. It's the other side of BI (Business Intelligence, which I sometimes refer to as an oxymoron) that I also call "bi" (intentionally in lower case because of its low standing in my eyes) which is short for "business imagination" where they get "creative with the numbers".
Even my Grandmother had a sense of this way back in the 50's and 60's. She'd see some newspaper article about something or an early TV ad (we had a whopping 3 channels back then!) or we'd pass a new billboard on a rare "car trip to the city" and she'd shake her head in disgust. Every once in a while, she'd take the time to explain her thoughts but they'd usually end with the same advice... "Jeff, when you grow up... remember that figures can lie and liars will figure".
Thanks, Grandma... that bit of advice has paid off over and over again.
And, thank you for the article, Mr. Jones. This is one of those things that "everybody knows" but we get kind of numb to it and need a good reminder like this article.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 19, 2021 at 6:27 pm
here is another prime example of selective filtering
read the post before MSM / woke brigade / censor take it down !
June 20, 2021 at 12:11 am
here is another prime example of selective filtering
read the post before MSM / woke brigade / censor take it down !
I never bought into FaceBook or Twitter... what was the crux of what it said?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 20, 2021 at 7:43 pm
Heh... it's also how people interpret things. Remember the old joke about bananas?
After a 2 year study, it's been found that people eat more bananas than monkeys.
It must be true... I've never eaten a monkey.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 21, 2021 at 8:14 am
Jeff, Hi
try this instead
but in case you don't read newspapers either (too much bad news) the article was entitled
"Fear over freedom: Here's what the doom-laden government graphs didn't show us"
BTW I always liked the blind men describing [feeling] an elephant
June 21, 2021 at 2:25 pm
"Lies, damned lies and statistics"
I wanted to credit the original author of that phrase, but it appears that it is in question. It was popularized by Mark Twain.
June 21, 2021 at 2:27 pm
Jeff, Hi
try this instead
but in case you don't read newspapers either (too much bad news) the article was entitled
"Fear over freedom: Here's what the doom-laden government graphs didn't show us"
BTW I always liked the blind men describing [feeling] an elephant
I do read a whole lot. I'm just not going to subscribe to every bloody "paper" that tries to force me to do so. Your first link above is one of "those".
Thanks for posting the charts. Heh... that's pretty typical of people and a major problem with what people call "BI".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 21, 2021 at 2:59 pm
I'd prefer this not turn into some political discussion. Both sides, or really all sides, use these techniques to sway others.
Outside of politics, plenty of others use statistics and data, often in a small dose, to attempt to manipulate others, win an argument, secure funding, drop funding, force a decision, etc. Kids do this with their parents. Parents do this with kids. Neighbors do this, friends do this, enemies do this.
My point is more that disclosing more data and being transparent is a better way. If your argument has merits, disclosing more statistics doesn't hurt it. Or maybe it's just too hard.
I think most of the time the world is gray. And when we argue or want to convince someone, we don't like gray. We want more black and white. We want a preponderance of the evidence. I think often we're in that 55-45 or closer range with many arguments, which is a difficult place to be for many humans.
June 21, 2021 at 4:36 pm
+1
your original point advanced was well-made, and I concur with your follow-up that most?all politics/arguments start with subjective PoV
- the questions are whether a presenter makes a sufficient case, and if the readers are convinced and/or are prepared to alter course any
Please keep up with the technical flow here, but accept that ppl will inevitably have a spectrum of positions and interests to defend
- please don't suppress/discourage an alternate PoV or attempt censorship as that will lose the community appeal of learning/sharing knowledge & experience. MSM may now have cause to rethink its 1-party agenda and hopefully counter PoVs will again flourish
June 21, 2021 at 4:39 pm
I ask gently, but I really hate doing anything else. I don't always like where the discussion goes, but as long as it's not abusing or profane, I won't censor it.
I appreciate your view, Dick, but there is no 1 party agenda. There are a variety of sources, and views. I see this from all sorts of media, large media that support both sides, or really more than 2 sides. They all like to stoke emotions and get ratings.
June 22, 2021 at 1:51 pm
In the realm of politics, statistics are just lies expressed in numbers and colors.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 23, 2021 at 1:10 am
I am with Jeff, am not going to subscribe to a paper or site just to read one article.
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