October 7, 2012 at 7:47 am
Perry Whittle (10/7/2012)
Jeff Moden (10/6/2012)
Someone on this thread asked what I looked for on resumesi did 😉
Jeff Moden (10/6/2012)
and my answer was that I basically interview anyone that applies.so you get 25 CVs and you interview the lot??
You have way to much time on your hands 🙂
Did you read the other part about usually only getting 6 or 8 candidates or the part about me reserving the right to limit the length of the interview? I've been known to stop an interview after just 2 questions.
I've also found that some people who are very smart about SQL can't write a resume to save their soul.
Jeff Moden (10/6/2012)
I will, in fact, move veterans to the top of the stack because of the training they receive in the military especially the lessons they receive in how to communicate effectively.Sorry, but i don't subscribe to this. There are just as many people in civvy street who have the discipline and work ethos you would be looking for. I also have known many people who have been in the services and trust me you wouldn't employ them to fix your bicycle 😛
Agreed but I've found that to be the exception rather than the rule. Regardless, I'll always give people that have put themselves in harms way some additional consideration.
Let me ask, did you serve in the military, Perry?
I have read the 4 tough questions and wondering why you're so pre occupied with the t-log LSNs. What about the differential base LSN too. In reality a DBA would be restoring a differential backup and not 3 days of log backups during their restore scenario.
Someone asked for a "tough" question. I posted 4 related "tough" questions. That's all.
Also, in reality, I made the questions easier by not including differential backups. If they can't do a PIT restore using just FULL and T-Log files, why would they be able to use differentials? Question 5 would be "... And if you have Differential files, then what?"
Other questions i would be asking would be more along the lines of
- what resources would you expect to see for a typical clustered instance of SQL server?
- list the agent jobs that are created for a Log shipping scenario and where they execute
Agreed. Good questions that I'd likely ask right after I found out if they could actually do a PIT restore. 😀
It also "Depends". We have an atypical clustering method where the DBA isn't involved at all. The infrastructure folks have a different method they're using for both local clustering and replication to the DR clusters. In the current case, I wouldn't even bother the candidate with a question on clustering or log shipping because (s)he wouldn't ever be tasked in that area. I might explain the setup to the candidate and then ask what they suppose will happen if one of the nodes is bounced for maintenance or what might happen to DR replication if a runaway query exploded the log file.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 7, 2012 at 8:37 am
Jeff Moden (10/6/2012)
and my answer was that I basically interview anyone that applies.
Jeff Moden (10/7/2012)
Did you read the other part about usually only getting 6 or 8 candidates or the part about me reserving the right to limit the length of the interview? I've been known to stop an interview after just 2 questions.
No, i based my reply on the quote above, so which is it all or some?
Jeff Moden (10/7/2012)
I've also found that some people who are very smart about SQL can't write a resume to save their soul.
True, but the same is true for all professions. Not just DBAs or even IT generally.
Jeff Moden (10/6/2012)
]Let me ask, did you serve in the military, Perry?
No, did you?? Not every serviceman is a grade a "sir, yes sir" recruit. As i said i have known people who have been in the forces and you wouldn't trust them with a firearm let alone your bicycle. To imply that any one who served in the forces is better than anyone else is pretty shallow tbh. There are 7 billion people on this planet and a small portion have served in the armed forces, for everyone of these guys therell be double that in civvy street who "have what it takes" to excel in IT as a DBA or indeed any other discipline.
Jeff Moden (10/7/2012)
clustering or log shipping because (s)he wouldn't ever be tasked in that area.
If a DBA installs a clustered instance of sql server and cant list the typical resources found then that in my mind is a huge shortfall. You dont use log shipping then?
Honestly i would be throwing in the diffs as i'd want to know that person could provide me with more than 1 restore path in the event of a lost or corrupted log backup. Your scenario provides only a single restore path
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"Ya can't make an omelette without breaking just a few eggs" 😉
October 7, 2012 at 9:10 am
Perry Whittle (10/7/2012)
No, i based my reply on the quote above, so which is it all or some?
Like I said, I'll interview all of them even if they mispelled "SQL" on their resume. 😀 It's not a matter of me having time on my hands... it's a matter of me finding the best fit for whatever job I need to have filled even if they can't write a resume.
Perry Whittle (10/7/2012)
Jeff Moden (10/7/2012)
I've also found that some people who are very smart about SQL can't write a resume to save their soul.True, but the same is true for all professions. Not just DBAs or even IT generally.
I believe that answers the question of why I'll interview everyone. 🙂
Perry Whittle (10/7/2012)
Jeff Moden (10/6/2012)
]Let me ask, did you serve in the military, Perry?No, did you?? Not every serviceman is a grade a "sir, yes sir" recruit. As i said i have known people who have been in the forces and you wouldn't trust them with a firearm let alone your bicycle. To imply that any one who served in the forces is better than anyone else is pretty shallow tbh. There are 7 billion people on this planet and a small portion have served in the armed forces, for everyone of these guys therell be double that in civvy street who "have what it takes" to excel in IT as a DBA or indeed any other discipline.
Like I said, I agree that not every serviceman is worth their salt. But as you've so very adequately pointed out, out of the 7 billion people on this planet, only a very small percentage has served their country in such a fashion (conscribed or volunteered). I'm certainly not looking for a "sir, yes sir" recruit. That would be a "code monkey" and if I ever need one of those, I'll start accepting resumes from the zoo. 😛 Most folks with service experience that I've had the pleasure of meeting not only know how to think outside the proverbial box, but they also know how to communicate problems quickly and effectively. Yes, I agree that there are "civies" that have what it takes but I'll give someone with service experience the extra "break" because they've been in harms way. I'd do so even if I didn't have service experience myself.
Perry Whittle (10/7/2012)
Jeff Moden (10/7/2012)
clustering or log shipping because (s)he wouldn't ever be tasked in that area.If a DBA installs a clustered instance of sql server and cant list the typical resources found then that in my mind is a huge shortfall. You dont use log shipping then?
No question about it. If the DBA installs a clustered instance, (s)he'd better be able to do as you say. But, in our company, the DBA doesn't do that and SQL Server clustering isn't what is being used. I'm not 100% sure how it all works because I've not done a deep dive on it but they also have a system that creates its own logs and it captures every byte that changes on the server for DR purposes where most people might use log shipping.
Perry Whittle (10/7/2012)
Honestly i would be throwing in the diffs as i'd want to know that person could provide me with more than 1 restore path in the event of a lost or corrupted log backup. Your scenario provides only a single restore path
I'm not sure you reading the answers to the questions you've asked, Perry. Did I not say that if they answered the 4 questions on full PIT restores that the 5th question would include differentials?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 7, 2012 at 10:26 pm
I don't know if this is still an open issue or not, but if it is and you want help interviewing and identifying the right candidate, I know an independent consultant who offers this as a service. I can give you her contact info if you want.
October 18, 2012 at 8:54 am
UPDATE!!!
Ok... We interviewed 2 candidates that seemed to have plenty of exp. C1 had 17 years of verifiable exp, checked his references, etc. Candidate 2 had FIVE MS CERT's related to MS DBA and Sysadmin work in SQL Server 2008 and MS Server/Networking apps. On top of that, she has 2 Masters in technology fields, and a BS in CIS... I got her MS Transcript, and we verified her graduate degrees. She blew us away... I asked her the following question:
"Imagine an environment that currently has no DBA. No User Profiles. People using SA account. No Dev environments. I'm going to give you the key to the cabinet and you go do your thing. Where do you start?"
She talked for 12 minutes and wow can she talk. She then started asking questions about our hardware to which the boss was ready. He started answering the questions and they got into a back and forth. Then she started asking me questions about the database environment and started drawing conclusions. "So you have X and Y, but not Z? You probably have A, but not B, and maybe C?" She started asking questions about our previous migrations which the boss was able to answer... Then she zero'd in on a problem with the current hardware/software config that the boss is trying to get cleared up. She started making recommendations which the boss wrote down and then checked out.... she was dead on.
I said it was hypothetical and she turned it on us and started doing her job.... I'm not a DBA, but I recognized enough of what she was saying to realize she knew what she was doing.
She likes our small company environment. Family feel, fun, relaxed... another company offered her a lot more money. She says the environment is important, and so are the Bennies... I can only hope at this point......
October 18, 2012 at 8:57 am
CptCrusty1 (10/18/2012)
UPDATE!!!Ok... We interviewed 2 candidates that seemed to have plenty of exp. C1 had 17 years of verifiable exp, checked his references, etc. Candidate 2 had FIVE MS CERT's related to MS DBA and Sysadmin work in SQL Server 2008 and MS Server/Networking apps. On top of that, she has 2 Masters in technology fields, and a BS in CIS... I got her MS Transcript, and we verified her graduate degrees. She blew us away... I asked her the following question:
"Imagine an environment that currently has no DBA. No User Profiles. People using SA account. No Dev environments. I'm going to give you the key to the cabinet and you go do your thing. Where do you start?"
She talked for 12 minutes and wow can she talk. She then started asking questions about our hardware to which the boss was ready. He started answering the questions and they got into a back and forth. Then she started asking me questions about the database environment and started drawing conclusions. "So you have X and Y, but not Z? You probably have A, but not B, and maybe C?" She started asking questions about our previous migrations which the boss was able to answer... Then she zero'd in on a problem with the current hardware/software config that the boss is trying to get cleared up. She started making recommendations which the boss wrote down and then checked out.... she was dead on.
I said it was hypothetical and she turned it on us and started doing her job.... I'm not a DBA, but I recognized enough of what she was saying to realize she knew what she was doing.
She likes our small company environment. Family feel, fun, relaxed... another company offered her a lot more money. She says the environment is important, and so are the Bennies... I can only hope at this point......
Sounds great. Good luck.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
October 18, 2012 at 9:50 am
CptCrusty1 (10/18/2012)
UPDATE!!!Ok... We interviewed 2 candidates that seemed to have plenty of exp. C1 had 17 years of verifiable exp, checked his references, etc. Candidate 2 had FIVE MS CERT's related to MS DBA and Sysadmin work in SQL Server 2008 and MS Server/Networking apps. On top of that, she has 2 Masters in technology fields, and a BS in CIS... I got her MS Transcript, and we verified her graduate degrees. She blew us away...
C2 sounds smart and well read, but how many years on job related experience do they have?
The real world can be messy, vague, uncooperative, and best options are not always available. The true test of any professional is their adaptability and resolve in less than ideal circumstances.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 18, 2012 at 9:55 am
Eric M Russell (10/18/2012)
CptCrusty1 (10/18/2012)
UPDATE!!!Ok... We interviewed 2 candidates that seemed to have plenty of exp. C1 had 17 years of verifiable exp, checked his references, etc. Candidate 2 had FIVE MS CERT's related to MS DBA and Sysadmin work in SQL Server 2008 and MS Server/Networking apps. On top of that, she has 2 Masters in technology fields, and a BS in CIS... I got her MS Transcript, and we verified her graduate degrees. She blew us away...
C2 sounds smart and well read, but how many years on job related experience do they have?
The real world can be messy, vague, uncooperative, and best options are not always available. The true test of any professional is their adaptability and resolve in less than ideal circumstances.
Eric,
She has 9 yrs exp post BS degree, 4 post 2nd Masters. Certs were all done in 2010. Her CV spoke to the problem we had so she has the experience with the same problems we currently have. She identified well with the bosses questions re: systems infrastructure.
October 18, 2012 at 4:05 pm
CptCrusty1 (10/18/2012)
UPDATE!!!Ok... We interviewed 2 candidates that seemed to have plenty of exp. C1 had 17 years of verifiable exp, checked his references, etc. Candidate 2 had FIVE MS CERT's related to MS DBA and Sysadmin work in SQL Server 2008 and MS Server/Networking apps. On top of that, she has 2 Masters in technology fields, and a BS in CIS... I got her MS Transcript, and we verified her graduate degrees. She blew us away... I asked her the following question:
"Imagine an environment that currently has no DBA. No User Profiles. People using SA account. No Dev environments. I'm going to give you the key to the cabinet and you go do your thing. Where do you start?"
She talked for 12 minutes and wow can she talk. She then started asking questions about our hardware to which the boss was ready. He started answering the questions and they got into a back and forth. Then she started asking me questions about the database environment and started drawing conclusions. "So you have X and Y, but not Z? You probably have A, but not B, and maybe C?" She started asking questions about our previous migrations which the boss was able to answer... Then she zero'd in on a problem with the current hardware/software config that the boss is trying to get cleared up. She started making recommendations which the boss wrote down and then checked out.... she was dead on.
I said it was hypothetical and she turned it on us and started doing her job.... I'm not a DBA, but I recognized enough of what she was saying to realize she knew what she was doing.
She likes our small company environment. Family feel, fun, relaxed... another company offered her a lot more money. She says the environment is important, and so are the Bennies... I can only hope at this point......
Did she suggest a "lockdown/control" plan and a plan to effectively create a Dev environment?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 19, 2012 at 6:28 am
Master Moden,
Absolutely she did... she rolled her eyes as dramatically as possible at the answers to her questions in that area.
Alas... She took a different offer. We have a hard time competing with Oil and Gas salaries....
Crusty.
October 19, 2012 at 7:42 am
CptCrusty1 (10/19/2012)
Master Moden,Absolutely she did... she rolled her eyes as dramatically as possible at the answers to her questions in that area.
Alas... She took a different offer. We have a hard time competing with Oil and Gas salaries....
Crusty.
From what you've described, she's a goldmine of good ideas and open about sharing them. Even if she does take another job offer, ask her if she'd be interested in providing a few hours a month of consulting and design work with you guys on the side.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 19, 2012 at 9:20 am
CptCrusty1 (10/19/2012)
Master Moden,Absolutely she did... she rolled her eyes as dramatically as possible at the answers to her questions in that area.
Alas... She took a different offer. We have a hard time competing with Oil and Gas salaries....
Crusty.
Heh... so much for really liking a "family-like environment". 😛 That's really too bad... from your description, she sounds rock solid both in the DBA world and in her ability to communicate.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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