October 4, 2012 at 11:42 pm
Generally I think that experience is a better measuring stick, sure you'll have exceptions but overall experience counts.
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"Ya can't make an omelette without breaking just a few eggs" 😉
October 5, 2012 at 6:40 am
Perry Whittle (10/4/2012)
Generally I think that experience is a better measuring stick, sure you'll have exceptions but overall experience counts.
If I hadn't actually been through it, I'd absolutely agree. But my personal experience with conducting interviews has been quite the opposite. For example, one fellow (SQL Developer candidate) claimed 10 years of experience in both Oracle and SQL Server and further claimed, on the resume, to be a "9 out of 10 in both". I inform each candidate that I'm going to start out with easy questions to break the ice and relaxe a bit. When I asked this guy how to get the current date and time using T-SQL, his answer was "I don't know. They always used the GUI for that."
In the most recent round of hiring at my previous company, we interviewed 6 people that claimed to be DBAs. All of them fit the category of "7 to 10 years" of experience according to their resumes. 5 of them didn't know you could backup the log file. Of those 5, 4 of them didn't know anything about index maintenance never mind index fragmentation, 1 of them had never done a backup, and none of the 5 had ever done a restore. The one who had some actual knowledge of what a System DBA actually does didn't know the differences between clustered and non-clustered indexes but did know that one of them "lived in the data" although he couldn't remember which one.
Imagine the fun there when we got into things like "security".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 5, 2012 at 6:52 am
Jeff Moden (10/5/2012)
If I hadn't actually been through it, I'd absolutely agree. But my personal experience with conducting interviews has been quite the opposite. For example, one fellow (SQL Developer candidate) claimed 10 years of experience in both Oracle and SQL Server and further claimed, on the resume, to be a "9 out of 10 in both". I inform each candidate that I'm going to start out with easy questions to break the ice and relaxe a bit. When I asked this guy how to get the current date and time using T-SQL, his answer was "I don't know. They always used the GUI for that."In the most recent round of hiring at my previous company, we interviewed 6 people that claimed to be DBAs. All of them fit the category of "7 to 10 years" of experience according to their resumes. 5 of them didn't know you could backup the log file. Of those 5, 4 of them didn't know anything about index maintenance never mind index fragmentation, 1 of them had never done a backup, and none of the 5 had ever done a restore. The one who had some actual knowledge of what a System DBA actually does didn't know the differences between clustered and non-clustered indexes but did know that one of them "lived in the data" although he couldn't remember which one.
Imagine the fun there when we got into things like "security".
Hmm, the obvious issue here is that you can put whatever you like on a CV (I was a rocket scientist for NASA).
These people, although they say they had 10 years exp obviously didn't, they probably worked a service desk for a couple of years and picked up tidbits off the DBA and are now just trying to blag their way in your front door 😉
Unluckily for them you weeded them out, just because they claim to have 10 or 6 years doesn't mean they have.
I once worked in a company where they employed a pensions administrator, it wasn't until he got in the door at his desk that it was apparent he didn't have a clue, he got marched offsite after 2 days 😀
Incidentally, If you have an oracle DBA trying to blag their way into a SQL DBA post and they don't have the exp they claim, they may not know that you can backup the log as oracle works completely differently in that respect.
I still think that someone who has the many years exp and can back it up 😉 is going to be a sure fire winner
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"Ya can't make an omelette without breaking just a few eggs" 😉
October 5, 2012 at 7:00 am
Jeff Moden (10/5/2012)
I inform each candidate that I'm going to start out with easy questions to break the ice and relaxe a bit. When I asked this guy how to get the current date and time using T-SQL, his answer was "I don't know. They always used the GUI for that."
Can you give an example of a "tough" question?
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It takes a minimal capacity for rational thought to see that the corporate 'free press' is a structurally irrational and biased, and extremely violent, system of elite propaganda.
David Edwards - Media lens[/url]
Society has varying and conflicting interests; what is called objectivity is the disguise of one of these interests - that of neutrality. But neutrality is a fiction in an unneutral world. There are victims, there are executioners, and there are bystanders... and the 'objectivity' of the bystander calls for inaction while other heads fall.
Howard Zinn
October 5, 2012 at 7:40 am
Posers who have recently taken a crash course on SQL Server or memorized answers to questions have trouble putting what little they do know in context. On those occasions where I've participated in an interview, I typically ask open ended questions, let the candidate do most of the talking, and then I'll ask followup questions based on their reply. For example:
Describe the best backup and recovery implementation you've ever worked with, and tell me how you would improve upon it even further.
A monthly report that typically runs in under a minute has been running for more than 1/2 hour, tell me how you would identify the problem and resolve it.
What are some database design patterns that can cause index fragmentation, and then describe how you would resolve it.
What is contained in TEMPDB, and how would you go about diagnosing and resolving a TEMPDB that is consuming too much disk space?
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 5, 2012 at 7:56 am
These people, although they say they had 10 years exp obviously didn't, they probably worked a service desk for a couple of years and picked up tidbits off the DBA and are now just trying to blag their way in your front door 😉
Unluckily for them you weeded them out, just because they claim to have 10 or 6 years doesn't mean they have.
A caveat to this, Sir Moden, is that someone could actually have 10 years exp, but the question is the quality/type of exp they have. They might have worked in a position as a Junior DBA/Junior letter opener; however, it their role was limited and they never furthered their own exp. then their experience is limited to the fragmented world they live in.
I like Car analogies so here's one. Any one can drive the Civilian Hummer V1. But unless you push the boundaries, you don't know know the capacity/capabilities/limitations of the equipment. An Example is the Soccer Mom who buys the Hummer (original Version), or the business guy that dresses it up in Brush Guards and fog lights, using it as a daily commuter. For me, 15 years military exp. I drove the Schlitz out of the original version of the Hummer. I even drove one off a cliff. (that was fun... LOL) and through 4 feet of water. The civilian version is exactly the same, just nicer seats and better paint... I could have so much fun with it because I KNOW the capabilities of the equipment. Soccer Mom/Business Man might have 10 years exp., but its not the same level as mine... Make sense?
I ran into this with an Access developer saying he was an expert. I ended the interview after 10 minutes becuase his 10 years experience was running apps....
October 5, 2012 at 8:27 am
Abu Dina (10/5/2012)
Jeff Moden (10/5/2012)
I inform each candidate that I'm going to start out with easy questions to break the ice and relaxe a bit. When I asked this guy how to get the current date and time using T-SQL, his answer was "I don't know. They always used the GUI for that."Can you give an example of a "tough" question?
Sure. How about 4... actually, these aren't "tough" questions for a good Systems DBA.
1. Why isn't the date/time in a log backup filename a good indication as to whether or not the log file can be used as part of a point-in-ime restore using the most recent full backup as the start of the restore?
2. What is the required LSN overlap of a log file backup in relation to the LSNs of the recent full backup for a log file backup file to be considered for a point-in-time restore?
3. What impact will the bulk logged recovery mode have on point-in-time restores?
4. How can you tell if a log file backup was taken while the database was in the bulk logged recovery mode before you start the restore?
For SQL Developers, the "tough" questions that none of the candidates that I've ever interviewed have gotten right is...
1. How do you count from to 100 in a set-based fashion? (Most of them hadn't even heard the term "Set Based" before).
2. Explain how to use a Numbers or Tally Table to replace certain types of loops. (None of them had heard of either).
3. Why isn't the conversion of a Cursor to a Temp Table/While Loop an acceptable substitute for the Cursor?
4. How do you view the "Actual Execution Plan"?
And, no... I'm not going to post the answers. 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 5, 2012 at 8:31 am
CptCrusty1 (10/5/2012)
A caveat to this, Sir Moden, is that someone could actually have 10 years exp, but the question is the quality/type of exp they have.
That's precisely the point I was trying to make about "experience". Years served is not necessarily a good indication of knowlege or skill.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 5, 2012 at 8:39 am
CptCrusty1 (10/5/2012)
Sir Moden
😀 he should defo get a pork chop in the boat for that one
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"Ya can't make an omelette without breaking just a few eggs" 😉
October 5, 2012 at 8:43 am
Jeff Moden (10/5/2012)
CptCrusty1 (10/5/2012)
A caveat to this, Sir Moden, is that someone could actually have 10 years exp, but the question is the quality/type of exp they have.That's precisely the point I was trying to make about "experience". Years served is not necessarily a good indication of knowlege or skill.
So, pre interview, what are you using to measure whether you'll even bother sitting the candidate in front of you?
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"Ya can't make an omelette without breaking just a few eggs" 😉
October 5, 2012 at 9:50 am
So, pre interview, what are you using to measure whether you'll even bother sitting the candidate in front of you?
Other than the option for a phone screen, I use what I call my BS meter... or, "The smell test"
One of the candidates we're going to interview has 5 MS Certifications for 2008 related things including DBA stuff. I got her Transcript from microsoft to verify. The language in her resume was not super "high-brow" telling me how she single-handedly solved the problems of the world. That kind of stuff.
Easily verifiable stuff like a Masters in Computer Science and Network Infrastructure, yadda yadda... These things tell me she's the real deal without having to speak a word. Now, whether she is able to apply it or not, that's another thing. Turns out she's "Linked" to a former colleague of mine via Linked'In... so I reached out and got a favorable reply. Nothing detailed, just a quick opinion thing. Her resume was very casual and almost humble.
A candidate I turned down was tripping my BS meter all over the place... His resume was filled with "solely responsible", "sole collaborator on a 2 person team". Lots of stuff about how he saved the world. 4 previous jobs listed, 2 were for short terms. The language of the resume was extremely high in the confidence meter. Plus he rated himself a 9/10 for SQL knowledge. He has the same years exp as the first candidate, but no nearly the education. Hmmmmm... something doesn't smell right here.
These two candidates come as stark contrast to each other. Both have Advanced Degress, hers is technology related, his is an MBA, both have BS in CS. He has no other education since his MBA, she completed 5 Microsoft courses in 2010, 3 more in 2011, and 2 this year alone.... blows me a way.
My feeling from the two resumes is that she lives for her work. He lives for... something else.. don't know. His resume doesn't smell right to me. I go with the first instinct.
Hows that? Do I pass? Can I have a cookie now? Please? 😀
October 5, 2012 at 10:39 am
CptCrusty1 (10/5/2012)
So, pre interview, what are you using to measure whether you'll even bother sitting the candidate in front of you?
Other than the option for a phone screen, I use what I call my BS meter... or, "The smell test"
One of the candidates we're going to interview has 5 MS Certifications for 2008 related things including DBA stuff. I got her Transcript from microsoft to verify. The language in her resume was not super "high-brow" telling me how she single-handedly solved the problems of the world. That kind of stuff.
Easily verifiable stuff like a Masters in Computer Science and Network Infrastructure, yadda yadda... These things tell me she's the real deal without having to speak a word. Now, whether she is able to apply it or not, that's another thing. Turns out she's "Linked" to a former colleague of mine via Linked'In... so I reached out and got a favorable reply. Nothing detailed, just a quick opinion thing. Her resume was very casual and almost humble.
A candidate I turned down was tripping my BS meter all over the place... His resume was filled with "solely responsible", "sole collaborator on a 2 person team". Lots of stuff about how he saved the world. 4 previous jobs listed, 2 were for short terms. The language of the resume was extremely high in the confidence meter. Plus he rated himself a 9/10 for SQL knowledge. He has the same years exp as the first candidate, but no nearly the education. Hmmmmm... something doesn't smell right here.
These two candidates come as stark contrast to each other. Both have Advanced Degress, hers is technology related, his is an MBA, both have BS in CS. He has no other education since his MBA, she completed 5 Microsoft courses in 2010, 3 more in 2011, and 2 this year alone.... blows me a way.
My feeling from the two resumes is that she lives for her work. He lives for... something else.. don't know. His resume doesn't smell right to me. I go with the first instinct.
Hows that? Do I pass? Can I have a cookie now? Please? 😀
I hold alphabet soup after a name the same as I do for "experience". I don't use it as a measure to figure out whether I want to interview someone or not. Two reasons.
"Book Smarts" are a whole lot different than actually doing something. A lot of certs (except the MCM cert which has a practical exam) can be achieved by rote memorization in a short amount of time.
The other reason is that people just don't retain what they've been taught. One of the people we interviewed for a lead developer position claimed to have a Masters in Mathematics which was perfect because we were working with a lot of binary math and base conversions. He lied though. I verified that he actually had a Phd in Mathematics. I guess I understand trying to avoid the "over qualified" problem. As a part of my short interview with him (it lasted until I found out my boss hired him and not sure why my boss wanted me to interview him if he'd already been hired), I asked him to convert 14 Base 16 to Base 10. This is something that anyone with a degree in mathematics should be able to quickly do in their head. He told me he'd need a piece of paper and some time to figure it out.
It only took him 3 months to crash and burn both as a leader and as a developer.
Like I said, be careful of taking too much stock in whether or not people have alphabet soup after their name... especially in this business.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 5, 2012 at 11:31 am
Hmmm... I made a lame attempt to answer the 8 questions. I then researched the answers online.
You wouldn't have hired me! Lol 😀
---------------------------------------------------------
It takes a minimal capacity for rational thought to see that the corporate 'free press' is a structurally irrational and biased, and extremely violent, system of elite propaganda.
David Edwards - Media lens[/url]
Society has varying and conflicting interests; what is called objectivity is the disguise of one of these interests - that of neutrality. But neutrality is a fiction in an unneutral world. There are victims, there are executioners, and there are bystanders... and the 'objectivity' of the bystander calls for inaction while other heads fall.
Howard Zinn
October 5, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Perry Whittle (10/4/2012)
A great one is"it's late and you're rebooting the SQL Server but it's taking forever to shutdown and restart, why shouldn't you hold the power button for 4 secs to get a quick restart?"
Why didn't they shut the SQL services down first? If they're already shut down, hold the power button in! :w00t:
October 5, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Abu Dina (10/5/2012)
Can you give an example of a "tough" question?
0. Ask a question that they can answer based on rote memorization
Then
1. Why?
2. Explain more.
3. So, is that better or worse than Y?
4. <trick question to expose blatant lying or, on a phone interview, Google as the actual candidate>
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