October 14, 2010 at 8:26 am
I'm trying to do data modeling with Visio 2007, and it just seems Microsoft really hasn't put much effort into making the data modeling portion of Visio work well with MS SQL. When I try to reverse engineer the database I'm working with I have Micorsoft SQL Server selected as the 'Installed Visio Driver' then I select a Microsoft SQL 2008 database, but Visio just returns 'The currently selected Visio driver is not compatible with the data source'. What the heck... I can get it to work using Generic OLE DB Provider but then most of the data types in the model are incorrect.
Also with Visio when I do get a model created, often times moving a table will disconnect the relationships between it and other tables, and re-adding the relationship can create new columns if the foreign and primary keys aren't the same name.
Thus far I've had better luck using the data modeler in SSMS than Visio, but I wanted to ask if I'm missing something or is it the consensus of most that Visio just isn't up to snuff for doing good data modeling. I've also been looking at Toad Data Modeler by Quest which I love the Freeware version, but even it expires in about 120 days and doesn't support more than 25 tables within the model which the database I'm working with now is 70 table and counting. And at the $475 price tag, though this is low for what I've seen others spend on a good modeling tool, it's beyond the budget I can spend.
Are there any other modeling tools you guys recommend? Even if there is a hefty price tag I might be able to get it through if I can prove it does what we need.
Thanks for any suggestions or ideas... or suggestions with Visio if I'm completely missing something.
Sam
October 14, 2010 at 9:49 am
My tool of choice is ERWin.
Check here for details http://www.ca.com/files/productbriefs/erwin_data_modeler_product_brief.pdf
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Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
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Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.October 14, 2010 at 10:26 am
I like visio, but I don't typically use the automation tools. I've got a toolbar that I've built a few shapes into to help me with, but primarily I use it to build out data flow diagrams and the like. Rarely is an ERD actually necessary, but I've gotten familiar enough with Visio I can do a largish DB within a day. More often I'm providing flow paths, algorithmic descriptions, and the like, where the freeform nature of Visio is a lot more powerful and useful.
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October 14, 2010 at 7:15 pm
I would only model in Visio if someone held a gun to my head. But if it's unclear where I stand, let me know and I'll try to be less obtuse.
SSMS is certainly better. If you go for one of the third party tools, you'll be very happy. Personall, I like Embarcadero ERStudio, but ER/Win is good too.
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October 14, 2010 at 8:16 pm
I've used Sybase's PowerDesigner before, it's pretty good.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
October 15, 2010 at 5:34 am
WayneS (10/14/2010)
I've used Sybase's PowerDesigner before, it's pretty good.
I haven't used it, but I did an eval of PowerDesigner. It's a very good piece of software, especially if you have a lot of datawarehousing work. It's got tools in support of star schemas & such that don't exist with other tools.
Of course, let's be honest, a rock & chisel would be better than Visio.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
October 19, 2010 at 6:57 am
I'll echo a couple of sentiments here. As a charting, mapping, or graphic tool, I absolutely love Visio. I've used it extensively anytime I've needed a map, illustration, or some graphic representation of some type.
However, as a database modeling tool, I think it leaves a lot to be desired. I've tried creating site maps using Visio, and usually ended up with a gigantic, incomprehensible mess.
So, if you're going to use it for DB modeling, I wouldn't recommend it. If, however, you're going to create other graphic charts and maps, I definitely recommend it.
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October 27, 2010 at 4:12 am
Hi,
I used Visio for around three days with those three days being possibly the most stressful of my life, and the kicker with Visio is once you've persevered and actually created something you can't even forward engineer it, well since 2005 or something anyway (I seem to remember there being talk about an unofficial third party app that allowed forward engineering for 2007 but not from Microsoft).
Fortunately I was able to persuade my company to get ERWin and it’s a dream to work with in comparison. Regarding Visio I totally agree with the whole trying to move entities and the automatic dropping of foreign keys etc is enough to drive a sane man crazy!
I still shudder when thinking about creating ERDs in Visio.
March 28, 2011 at 5:23 am
I have been using Microsoft Office Visio, since the last couple of months. I use the latest version i.e. Visio 2010 and haven’t faced this type of problem. May be worth trying out the latest version of Visio and see if it solves your problem. Currently, there's also a free 60-day trial, so may be a good idea to check it out!
March 28, 2011 at 2:31 pm
I agree with Grant about using Visio to do modeling. They had a much better product (for modeling) before MS acquired them.
I'd recommend Quest's Toad Data Modeler. Nice reverse and forward engineering. Found compare/alter tools a little troublesome but overall it made my life a lot easier.
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- Nate
March 29, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Seconded for TOAD.
At about £400 notes it's possibly easier to sell to the boss than ERWin.
Couldn't give a genuine comparison of TOAD vs ERWin, however I assume ERWin does something good that justifies the price.
There's also UML (not for the purists) and plenty of free stuff (ArgoUML, Eclipse) that will help you to visualise a model prior to implementation.
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