September 22, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Community Direction
September 22, 2010 at 11:54 pm
What future SQL Server enhancements you consider important is going to depend a lot on what your role is. As a database developer, I would place a higher priority on implementing the analytical functions - I've used them in Oracle, and miss them in SQL Server. SSMS add-ins are less important to me. Being able to browse through all the Connect suggestions for SQL Server easily, though, perhaps grouped by category and ranked by up-votes, would be a great enhancement to the site and would make it more useful to the community.
September 23, 2010 at 6:18 am
If you want to see how to present a choice to users, take a look at the annual SAS SASware Ballot: http://support.sas.com/community/ballot/
BTW, several of Ben-Gan's items are longtime SAS functions, which I also miss in SS.
September 23, 2010 at 7:21 am
jeff.mach (9/22/2010)
What future SQL Server enhancements you consider important is going to depend a lot on what your role is. As a database developer, I would place a higher priority on implementing the analytical functions - I've used them in Oracle, and miss them in SQL Server. SSMS add-ins are less important to me. Being able to browse through all the Connect suggestions for SQL Server easily, though, perhaps grouped by category and ranked by up-votes, would be a great enhancement to the site and would make it more useful to the community.
Don't see an option to group by category, but you can rank by up-votes. Not the most intuitive way to get there (that could be improved with a quick link), but if you get to the full list for SQL Server, it's a sort option in the drop-down upper right-hand side.
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
September 23, 2010 at 7:53 am
jeff.mach (9/22/2010)
What future SQL Server enhancements you consider important is going to depend a lot on what your role is. ...
I couldn't agree more and hence the danger to users and a benefit to Microsoft. I'll explain momentarily after a short preface.
As the director of a small application development department for a company in risk control services, I was business analyst, application and database architect, DBA, developer and project manager. I encouraged brainstorming but made it clear "this is not a democracy; I want to hear your ideas but I am responsible for the utility, integrity, reliability and cost of the project and my decisions rule." Nor were the features of the application a matter of popular vote by the users. The goal was to develop high productivity applications that improved efficiency, quality and utilization of resources for the primary business of the company.
That being said and having held a variety of roles as a Microsoft product user (primarily Visual Studio and SQL Server and I refuse to use MS Project), I'm more concerned about improvements in productivity using those products then razzle-dazzle coding features. The IDE means a great deal more to me than some lacking function I can code myself. In my opinion, the IDE reached its high point around 1998 and 2000 and has gone downhill ever since. Concurrently, the help files have also significantly degraded in quality since that time. Help once included very useful hierarchical diagrams that were dropped around 2000 in favor of total text. Finding appropriate help in MS products now is a circular chase of diverging and converging links.
The idea of "voting" for features has nothing to do with a better product but everything to do with a popular product based on the preponderance of roles in the voting sample. That may be good for Microsoft sales, people who write books and self-anointed code gurus, but it is purely hit or miss on any significant improvement in productivity. The few hours it may take to code a complex function are a drop in the bucket compared to the time wasted because of bugs (discovered and undiscovered), re-learning an IDE, finding help for some rarely used function, or learning a new feature from a poorly written and contorted description and implementation.
In conclusion, my "vote" is to improve productivity with a more thoughtfully planned and designed IDE, utility and quality of the help system, and more straight-forward deployment tools.
September 23, 2010 at 8:41 am
Excellent points, but did you know you can submit a suggestion for IDE improvements? For help changes?
The point of voting is not to get "self-anointed code gurus" to help drive the product, but people in the real world. If 80,000 people were to vote for regular expression or file functions instead of Intellisense, does that tell you something? Or if the reverse were true, does that tell you something?
I wish that Microsoft would make efforts to really use this tool and get more input from people doing the work, trying to understand what would make them more productive. I think Microsoft does this with larger customers, but misses out from the smaller customers since not enough of them know about Connect, or what's submitted on there.
I'm not sure if the windowing stuff matters. A few people that write a lot of code say so, but I'm not sure these are really common cases. I can't find out without having a list of good cases and having people vote up, or down, on this stuff.
Did you know you can vote down as well?
September 23, 2010 at 9:47 am
I would love to see REPLACE INTO in T-SQL. If not that then support the alternative INSERT INTO syntax.
INSERT INTO MyTable SET
OrderNumber='Test12345'
, CustomerID=21785
, OrderDate='2010/09/23'
, DeliveryDate='2010/11/25'
Don't get me wrong. The windowing stuff is useful. I have many applications with grids all over the place. Not having to load the grid with a whole data set would be wonderful. Then when (not if) you get assigned to hand generate a printed report having the windowing stuff will make life less of a hell then printing in Dot Net currently is.
If you (when you) improve SQL I vote on starting with the the things done most often. That feels like DML to me. The query stuff is already great. Now improve the CRUD crud.
ATBCharles Kincaid
September 23, 2010 at 9:50 am
Steve Jones - Editor (9/23/2010)
Excellent points, but did you know you can submit a suggestion for IDE improvements? For help changes?
I didn't know this but nor do I have the time to write a book about everything I have learned developing interfaces that I find problematic in Microsoft products. The same applies to the structure, content and presentation of help files. The fact that whatever I suggest is subject to "vote" could render the entire exercise useless.
The point of voting is not to get "self-anointed code gurus" to help drive the product, but people in the real world. If 80,000 people were to vote for regular expression or file functions instead of Intellisense, does that tell you something? Or if the reverse were true, does that tell you something?
What that tells me is that 80,000 people have different priorities than say 20,000 people. What will make those 100,000 people more productive is not a matter of voting but is a matter of research, analysis and some good old fashioned common sense.
I wish that Microsoft would make efforts to really use this tool and get more input from people doing the work, trying to understand what would make them more productive. I think Microsoft does this with larger customers, but misses out from the smaller customers since not enough of them know about Connect, or what's submitted on there.
I agree, provided the priority is complaints about bugs or misleading or incomplete information in the help system. Most businesses once had a complaint department, then renamed it customer relations to eliminate the word "complaint", and now they use whatever name they believe no one else is using, i. e. Connect. Of course Connect is more than a complaint department and your point is well taken. Will it happen?
I'm not sure if the windowing stuff matters. A few people that write a lot of code say so, but I'm not sure these are really common cases. I can't find out without having a list of good cases and having people vote up, or down, on this stuff.
Did you know you can vote down as well?
This I didn't know either. I just have an issue with the whole idea of voting up or down on something that should be dictated by research and analysis. Obviously, no company can afford to ignore its market, but it's the IT managers buying the stuff, not the developers that work for them.
I really do appreciate your editorial. I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote but more reacting to voting as a method to guide product improvement.
September 23, 2010 at 10:55 am
trubolotta (9/23/2010)
...This I didn't know either. I just have an issue with the whole idea of voting up or down on something that should be dictated by research and analysis. Obviously, no company can afford to ignore its market, but it's the IT managers buying the stuff, not the developers that work for them.
I really do appreciate your editorial. I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote but more reacting to voting as a method to guide product improvement.
Very good points, and overall I agree. This shouldn't replace research, but there's also a flaw with research. You can't easily find out what the "market" wants. You can only get to a sample. If you could really get a good feel for the market, we wouldn't have so many bad products, or mis-placed products.
I don't think that Connect should replace PMs, sales people, etc. But it can augment a portion of the resources used for SQL Server. Maybe it's 5% of development resources, but I think there is value in hearing what the users need, as opposed to the market, which is often the managers/VPs/check signers.
Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply